Re: The Anti-NarSak Thread **READ FIRST POST**

[Bubbles]

Here's an incredibly annoying amd hypocritical argument:

What does a 15 year old girl know about love? It's obviously just a crush, and Naruto liked/loved Sakura all this time.

This argument is typically used in reference to Hinata loving Naruto and Sakura loving Sasuke. This argument pisses me off because it usually comes from NS, who in turn proves that it's a complete Nice Guy ship. Also the male can do no wrong. Naruto as a fifteen year old boy. But somehow he is more qualified to know what love is.....because?

Because it would mean NaruSaku is the good pairing, that's it. There is no basis for why Naruto is the mature one in knowing what love is. Sakura and Hinata apparently do not. The argument is completely biased because its based off the assumption that Sakura is crazy fangirl for still loving Sasuke (no way is it genuine love fuck what Sakura, Naruto, Sai and Kishi says), and that Hinata is an obsessive stalker who still just admires him and she misread her own feelings.

These degrading arguments toward the love these women have for the men just make me sick.

[Irielo]

^While reading Naruto, if there is a feeling that I have, it's that Hinata and Sakura are more mature when it comes to their romantic feelings. They know themselves very well and could express their feelings to the ones they love (Sakura to Sasuke, Hinata to Naruto).

In opposition, the boys need longer to sought out their own feelings in that field. Sasuke preferred to make abstraction of his feelings to become stronger and, as far as Naruto is concerned, the meeting with his parents, was helpful for him to become more mature.

To underestimate the fact that both girls know themselves and their feelings and to assume that Naruto because of being the hero would give him the right to love and to know what is love compared to Hinata and Sakura is pure BS and a way of bashing on them.

[lily567]

yes it is true the women are more mature towards their feelings towards the guys.

question you guys
if sakura falls for naruto what would have been the purpose for hinata ? in other words, why is it hinata the one who fell for him, supported him etc?
suppose sakura was meant to fall for naruto the hard way? what I mean by that question is that you guys said sakura had plenty of time to fall for naruto, what if she was suppose to fall for him later down the story?


if naruto at the end of the manga just calls hinata a friend and nothing more then why did he give hinata hints(all in your eyes, handhold etc) that his feelings for her are beyond friendship(beyond classmates, friends, close friends, comrades). we still don't know naruto's feelings for hinata but what I do know is that his feelings for grew everytime he interacts with her. another thing too,why does naruto give hinata the smiles he doesn't give anyone else?


sorry for the long post

I know you guys don't like the parallels etc
but there is something I would like to point out
the only difference between hinata and kushina is the short temper but hinata didn't look down on naruto

both were picked on
kushina was picked on by her classmates and hinata was picked on by her clansmen specifically her father but they didn't start to like themselves and become more confident until they met minato and naruto

[Irielo]

^Ok, let's imagine Sakura realizes all of a sudden that she is in love with Naruto... First of all, the characters are all free to love the way they want and Sakura could fall for Naruto, why not? However, her feelings for Sasuke have been always brought up and although she had the time to develop something romantic with Naruto, that did not happen.

In my opinion, she would now looks quite ridiculous to fall in love with him when she had all the time needed to realize it before.

As far as Naruto is concerned, he knows about Hinata's feelings. What would be the point of giving her positive signs of reciprocation just to reject her at the end  of the day?

Actually, he is free to do so but that would only show that he plays with the feelings of someone who loves him when he had the opportunity to avoid it if he wanted to do so.

Anyway, Sakura and Hinata are mature young women and very respectable because they assume their love no matter what. Sakura still keeps faith in Sasuke although she might not be sure about what he really stands for and Hinata does not judge Naruto and believes in him even in his dark hours.

[Bubbles]

^
Exactly. It's not that it can't happen even at this point in the story, but about what it would look like overall. NaruSaku had all the time in the world to be built into a believable, good pairing, but Kishi instead focused on Hinata loving Naruto and Sakura loving Sasuke. He even put in 469, which could have been great to use as positive for the ship (with a few tweaks of course, such as actual love and not guilt, and not doing it while still in love with someone else), but instead he uses it as a way to tell the readers Sakura loving Naruto for these reasons would be fickle? Well then, if NS happens, what does she choose him for? Those same reasons? That would make her fickle by Kishi's own writing.

For some other reason I can't even think of?

And where will her strong love for Sasuke go? Will it suddenly disapate after all this time and endurance that outlived even his darkest hour? That would be strange and out of place given everything she's been through regarding her feelings for him.

Hinata? What was the purpose of surrounding the majority of her character around loving Naruto and wishing to stand by and stay by his side forever if she was getting rejected in the end? Why do that when he could focus on the Hyuga more and her status within it instead of doing that pointless love scenario that ends up going nowhere? It definitely wasn't for her character development because her development as a confident kunoichi happened because of her watching Naruto, a fellow outcast who was branded a loser, yet kept pushing forward.

His inner strength inspired her, not her love for him, though it did help encourage some of her decisions regarding him. But when she was fighting Neji for example, she didn't want to look bad not because she had feelings for him, but because she admired him and used his nindo and cheering as her encouragment. She didn't have to love him for her to get development.  This is why I laugh when NS says her holding hands with Naruto was for her character development.

What was developing? She had already reached the peak of her development when she jumped in to stop Pein from taking Naruto. She could have died there and her storyline would have been complete. Or she could have lived and never loved him in the first place, just admire like someone she looked up to, and moved forward in this war being confident. She worked that hard to not be a failure who ran away, the minute she faced the enemy like that, her development was basically done. She is here now, holding his hand and wanting to stay by his side because she has another goal...to be with Naruto.

Naruto? Despite the fact that he has done just about zero to prove to the majority of the audience that he actually loves her or even really wants her as much as NS thinks, and despite that, knowing Hinata is in love with him, he held her hand, squeezed it and thanked her for being by his side this whole time...only to crush her confidence in being there (which were based on his responses to her btw), and walk off with Sakura instead of telling her he was not interested?

Sure, he could do that, but it is not in Naruto's character to be so disrespectful of his comrades feelings, especially those who have been there for him like she has. It would make him look uncaring and unappreciative of her care and sacrifices by not at least giving her the decency of an answer to her feelings, whether it be a rejection or not. Naruto is not a douchebag like that, no matter if NS wants to think Naruto would do such a rude thing. Or even if he did give her a rejection in the end, kishi still would have made Naruto look completely devoid of empathy regarding her love by holding her hand that way.

Hinata loves him, and furthermore, kishi keeps emphasizing it and put it on a cover. He would be throwing unnecesary and confusing things into the mix when it will serve no purpose. Its not only confusing to the readers, but to the characters. Hinata is becoming confident because of his actions toward her, which means its affecting the characters and if NS happens in the end, Kishi would have been actively aiming to build up her hopes only to have Hinata hurt and rejected in the end...why?

Yes it could happen, but I tell you it would not make a lick of sense at this point, character or plotwise. NS has zero romantic development, though it has plenty of friendship development. Not to mention, they still don't understand each other on a basic level while NaruHina do. Sure, Sakura can tell the alliance about Naruto and his love for his friends, and Naruto can see Sakura loves Sasuke and is determined now to fight, that's great to know...but Kishi made a point of it being Naruto and Hinata who can bring out the strength, the courage, the confidence and the best in each other and that is what is needed for a romantic pairing, something kishi just has not shown NaruSaku has and that is why it would fall flat on it's ass as a pairing.

It just doesn't show it would make a good pairing for the characters involved. Being good friends do not automatically mean romance would work, and Sakura and Naruto do not work romantically when you take in the story as a whole.

That's why it annoys me when NS acts like if NS doesn't happen, all its "600 chapters of development" will go to waste. It's a load of shit. Naruto and Sakura have being friends and teammates to fall back on, its far from a waste because Sakura didnt think shit of him until that development. Hinata on the otherhand, always thought well of him, and her loving Naruto will serve no purpose if it doesn't happen, except to set her up for failure for no reason when again, she could have admired him and thats it.

[Irielo]

^Thanks Bubbles for this detailed post about the characters' feelings and what do they mean for the story itself. +

[lily567]

^    that was a lot but worth reading +rep
excellent points you made bubbles, it would absolutely make no sense now for sakura to fall for naruto.
kishi right now is working on naruto's feelings for hinata and he is building it up even more.  the fact that it has been building up from part 1 and even more in part 2 hence naruto's actions towards hinata.

I got a question you guys is it possible that  naruto is attracted to hinata emotionally more so that physically?

[Irielo]

^That's not a question of possibility. The manga itself shows that Naruto is attracted to her emotionally and that, already since part 1. Just look how he was reacting when she was fighting against Neji and when the latter was trying to diminish her. Naruto was really pissed off and that led to the blood vow afterwards. Therefore, by identifying himself to her, he linked himself to her emotionally.

What was Naruto's reaction when Pein nearly killed Hinata, if not an explosion of emotions? Thus he is attracted to her emotionally because he is already linked to her emotionally.

[racefan1992]

Spoiler:

This post deserves a checkered flag

Spoiler:

And spot on as well.

^    that was a lot but worth reading +rep
excellent points you made bubbles, it would absolutely make no sense now for sakura to fall for naruto.
kishi right now is working on naruto's feelings for hinata and he is building it up even more.  the fact that it has been building up from part 1 and even more in part 2 hence naruto's actions towards hinata.

I got a question you guys is it possible that  naruto is attracted to hinata emotionally more so that physically?

Well Hinata is VERY fine physically, it is WAY more on the emotion side for Naruto.

[lily567]

good points you guys

yes I agree he is attracted to her emotionally but has there been any panel where naruto has been shown to be attracted towards hinata physically?

[MichaelInsanity]

No I don't believe so, but the fact is, she really hides her figure.

[lily567]

^ ok I see
naruto knows she is shy and would most likely not try to show out her figure like all the other girls do

whenever naruto is about to fall into a dark pitch or is stumbled on what to do, he realised that it has been hinata who was always there. yes naruto wanted love but he also wanted thekind of support hinatais giving him from that love and basically, from the beginning sakura really hasn't given naruto that sort of support like the kind hinata is giving him

[Irielo]

^ Even in Hinata's case, I can't remember that she felt in love with Naruto because of physical considerations. Did you ever see Hinata saying something like: "Naruto-Kun is so handsome, cute..." But already in the PF speech, one could notice the reasons which have charmed her in Naruto: the strength that he finds to stand up after falling and his nindo.

There is the fact that she could identify herself to Naruto because, despite of having a family, she was feeling lonely and Naruto suffered from loneliness too and both were not really respected. Naruto's strong motivation influenced Hinata  to give her best and to go beyond these things which could have put her down. Her match against Neji and Naruto cheering up for her is an example...

So, even on Hinata's side, I don't think that the love she has for Naruto is based on physical aspects but on deeper things which are more connected with the soul and her development as a person.

Therefore, to me, that's very fine too if Naruto falls/felt in love with Hinata for deeper reasons than the look.

[Mustang]

one of the big reasons why I don't see NS working, when we think about it, Naruto only had a crush because he thought Sakura was cute/good looking, back then he didn't understand what it meant to be in love, that is maybe because it takes guys longer to realise than females do, Hinata on the other hand knew deep down that she is in love with Naruto.

There is a story to be told here, With NaruHina, it is something to do with inner beauty, not the outer which is what NS stands for, Kishi to me is showing that even though someone may look good on the outside, but if it doesn't work on the inside then there won't be the same level of love between the characters, but as for Naruto and Hinata, well they both share the same inner turmoil that they both went through as kids and have come out stronger because of it, Hinata as you said Irielo, never fell in love with Naruto for any shallow reason, for example because he was cool of handsome.

But as for what Naruto thought of Sakura and the same could go for Rock Lee, they both thought of Sakura as cool, really cute, those two only had shallow reasons for liking Sakura. The same could be said for Sakura with Sasuke, but she grew up quickly and realised that Sasuke meant more to her because she started to understand him and why he was the way he was.

So both Naruto and Sakura are guilty for liking people for shallow reasons but eventually grew up, Sakura loves Sasuke no matter what he does, she remains loyal to him, she follows her heart, which is an admirable feature in her character. Naruto took a little more time, but he eventually realised that Sakura would never love him, but that didn't mean he would give up, he eventually found someone who does love him, he is making positive steps towards returning Hinata's love for him.

[racefan1992]

The only physical thing Hinata has said about Naruto is when they were holding hands: "Naruto-kuns hand is so big and strong.... and it makes me feel safe."

[Irielo]

The only physical thing Hinata has said about Naruto is when they were holding hands: "Naruto-kuns hand is so big and strong.... and it makes me feel safe."

True, but she was already in love with him at this time. And her love was not portrayed as a love based on the look. Anyway, chapter 615 was a kind of evolution regarding NaruHina's interaction. It was really the first time when there were so much physical contacts between them: Hinata slapping and caressing Naruto's face, Naruto taking, squeezing and holding Hinata's hand.

What will then come next?

[lily567]

The only physical thing Hinata has said about Naruto is when they were holding hands: "Naruto-kuns hand is so big and strong.... and it makes me feel safe."

True, but she was already in love with him at this time. And her love was not portrayed as a love based on the look. Anyway, chapter 615 was a kind of evolution regarding NaruHina's interaction. It was really the first time when there were so much physical contacts between them: Hinata slapping and caressing Naruto's face, Naruto taking, squeezing and holding Hinata's hand.

What will then come next?

possibly a hug will probably come next

@mustang
my friends and I discussed what you were talking about how naruto only liked sakura because she is pretty. throughout the entire course of the manga, naruto never said anything about sakura as a person. he only talked about the outer appearance when it came to her but it seems to me that he didn't bother to look at the inner appearance at all

[Irielo]

@mustang
my friends and I discussed what you were talking about how naruto only liked sakura because she is pretty. throughout the entire course of the manga, naruto never said anything about sakura as a person. he only talked about the outer appearance when it came to her but it seems to me that he didn't bother to look at the inner appearance at all

That does not mean that Sakura is a bad person inside. I think Naruto appreciates Sakura as a friend or like a sister. Naruto needs to have friends (and Sakura is one of the closest one), but he needs a partner in his life, someone he can trust 100%, someone who knows him deep inside and is able to support and understand him in any situation.

When I read how the story has been written that far, only Hinata fits this role perfectly. Naruto is becoming/has become more mature and he has himself acknowledged Hinata's importance in his life (Ch 615) and that was already a big hint regarding his future romantic life imo.

[lily567]

@mustang
my friends and I discussed what you were talking about how naruto only liked sakura because she is pretty. throughout the entire course of the manga, naruto never said anything about sakura as a person. he only talked about the outer appearance when it came to her but it seems to me that he didn't bother to look at the inner appearance at all

That does not mean that Sakura is a bad person inside. I think Naruto appreciates Sakura as a friend or like a sister. Naruto needs to have friends (and Sakura is one of the closest one), but he needs a partner in his life, someone he can trust 100%, someone who knows him deep inside and is able to support and understand him in any situation.

When I read how the story has been written that far, only Hinata fits this role perfectly. Naruto is becoming/has become more mature and he has himself acknowledged Hinata's importance in his life (Ch 615) and that was already a big hint regarding his future romantic life imo.

don't get me wrong irielo, I know naruto appreciates her as a friend or like a sister but my comment was talking about the beginning of part 1 mainly. as he got to know her, their friendship developed. and when I said throughout the manga, I meant that besides her outer appearance naruto did not say why he likes/liked her.

because hinata is by his side when ever he though when all is lost or he doubted himself etc, he is able to overcome those obstacles and naruto acknowledged it. he knows that without her, he wouldn't have made all the huge steps he made in his life and shinobi career and he would have still been that immature brat(well he still kinda is but not so much). evn tho naruto and hinata are on different teams and don't communicate as much as he and sakura, when they are together it is as if they were never on different teams, when they are together, the level of closeness and understanding between he two of them is so high, it is unbelievable. when itachi said to naruto that minato became hokage because he had kushina and all his friends, the reason why he singled out kushina wasn't just because she was his wife but itachi was pointing out to naruto that the love and support of a woman who loves you and stayed by your side from the beginning is what helps a man get far in life and achieve his goal and naruto not only finally got that through his thick skull but he acknowledged it as well. when naruto held hinata's hand and he said that it is because you have been by my side this whole time, he was saying, hinata, your care , your kindness, your support but most importantly your love helped me move forward when I was stuck and go down the wrong path, you kept guiding me on the right path when others were trying to push me off. yes naruto realized how important she is to him but I think he also realized how incredibly glad he is to have such a woman by his side who loves him and whom he wants to love back.

[Zori]

good points you guys

yes I agree he is attracted to her emotionally  but   has there been any panel where naruto has been shown to be attracted towards hinata physically?

Nope but knowing Naruto he most likely is.   

Even Kishimoto finds his own character attractive and would date her according to an interview. So it wouldn't be a big shocker if he made his main character of his manga the same.   

[Mustang]

The nice thing is, Kishi is taking his time, which is realistic in one sense because love takes time to develop, no point rushing it, SasuSaku developed in that manner as well and NaruHina is following that same road.

The good thing is and it is something that NS will not accept is the fact that Naruto has matured, his crush all but evaporated over time, all due to the fact that he accepted the fact that his friend is always going to love Sasuke, he was effectively friendzoned by Sakura in the early days.

Sure there were some chances that Naruto and Sakura could have ended up together, but those chances never really escalated into anything meaningful. Friendship and trust in one another's skills well that is a different story, maybe that is because the two are teammates so it is natural to say that their camaraderie has developed. all that and the fact that NS is driven by a third character, something that doesn't help the pairing one bit, Sasuke is the character that brought them closer, but he prevents Naruto and Sakura from being together in a romantic light because Sakura is in love with him.

But the nice thing is, there is no other character that prevents NaruHina from happening, well that is because everyone knows that Hinata loves Naruto.

[lily567]

^true

what do you guys think about the quality of the relationship naruto has with sakura compared to the quality of the relationship naruto has with hinata?

[Mustang]

The quality of the relationship between Naruto and Sakura to me is that of a sibling, mutual respect between the two, there is nothing wrong with that, it is a really nice thing to see, but even Sakura didn't think much of Naruto, to become one of his most trusted friends shows amazing development in their friendship. Can't say it will go beyond sibling/friendship, since there is no chance of it going beyond that level.

With the developing relationship with Naruto and Hinata, we can already see where it's head, first off we do know Hinata loves Naruto, no shallow reasons behind it which shows amazing maturity in her character even at the tender age 12/13. But there also the way he acts around Hinata, it is almost like they have been married for a long time (well I am joking there). there this feeling that we might see something next month on the 14th, lol.

[lily567]

The quality of the relationship between Naruto and Sakura to me is that of a sibling, mutual respect between the two, there is nothing wrong with that, it is a really nice thing to see, but even Sakura didn't think much of Naruto, to become one of his most trusted friends shows amazing development in their friendship. Can't say it will go beyond sibling/friendship, since there is no chance of it going beyond that level.

With the developing relationship with Naruto and Hinata, we can already see where it's head, first off we do know Hinata loves Naruto, no shallow reasons behind it which shows amazing maturity in her character even at the tender age 12/13. But there also the way he acts around Hinata, it is almost like they have been married for a long time (well I am joking there). there this feeling that we might see something next month on the 14th, lol.

I have always seen that the relationship between naruto and sakura has been strickly friendship or better yet sibling like. they are likes siblings in other anime, little brother does something, big sister hits the brothers with the nearest thing sh gets her hands on but in naruto's case, sakura's fist is the main weapon.

with naruto and hinata, , I agree with everything you said. well thre are 16/17 so of coarse they aren't married yet lol but the way naruto behaves around hinata compared to the rest of his friends suggest where hinata stands. he acts like an idiot around everyone and sometimes hinata but when naruto is talking with hinata, that goofy side is gone and you see a more mature side of naruto

[Irielo]

NaruHina does not need to use parallels to stand on its own and it does not need the Sakura "factor" neither to look good. Naruto and Hinata's interactions have always something special. When they interact, it's as if they are in their own dimension. These moments they share express deep tenderness and that already started in Part 1.

Part 1 actually gave already a strong romantic basis NaruHina to develop into a beautiful pairing and that what is slowly but surely happening in Part 2.

That's why, trying to put other characters in NaruHina's way, like Sakura for Naruto or Kiba for Hinata, is just ignoring the fact that in those cases, there are no romantic basis (P1) and no romantic development (P2) unlike NaruHina. The only thing which exists is a bond as teammates, comrades and friends.

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