Re: The Anti-NarSak Thread **READ FIRST POST**

[racefan1992]

^

Sai may have guilted Sakura into doing it but she went through the action of it. There is a saying that goes "your actions define you." Sakura didn't go there to confess too Naruto (Sai would say that later), she went there too tell him about what the rest of Rookies want to do about Saskue. Sakura had plenty of time too stop herself from doing what she was going too do and she didn't do it.

Plus she treated Naruto and everyone else there like they had some form of a mental problem, Sakura instead out smarted herself and came across as uncaring about Narutos feelings and wishes, as well as a manipulator and a liar. But i agree that Sakura wasn't been selfish. Her intentions were good but actions outweight intention by a long shot.

Plus she would go against Naruto for the uptenth time. NS died that day, both by Naruto and Sakura.

[lily567]

speaking about that confession
there was an interview by kishi where he said that sakura was honest yet stubborn or something like
my question is , is that the right translation to that interview?

[bricksquad88]

I just want to throw this out there: Why is Hinata still alive if she didn't have some serious purpose in Naruto's life? Why would Kishi make her survive TWICE if she was just fodder and nothing more? Because he's going to put her with Naruto. There is nothing really else to say about it. From the confession, to the slap, to the 2 chapters of holding hands, NaruHina is canon in my eyes. You don't hold hands with someone who is in love with you, and say you're just friends. So, at this moment, I declare, I consider NaruHina canon. It's juts the overwhelming amount of proof that has been shown that makes me believe the TRUE crack pairing here, is NS.

IMO I wouldn't jump the gun about NaruHina being cannon just yet. However, I've always wondered why he wrote some scenes the way he did. If he weren't to address certain things, I think that would just be a big troll and a waste of ink on his part.

My thinking is along the same lines as you. He did certain things a certain way, has too make you think. Or his editors did those things.

Yes. I am hoping that Kishimoto isn't just trying to fill up panels but is writing with some form of intentionality.

I just want to throw this out there: Why is Hinata still alive if she didn't have some serious purpose in Naruto's life? Why would Kishi make her survive TWICE if she was just fodder and nothing more? Because he's going to put her with Naruto. There is nothing really else to say about it. From the confession, to the slap, to the 2 chapters of holding hands, NaruHina is canon in my eyes. You don't hold hands with someone who is in love with you, and say you're just friends. So, at this moment, I declare, I consider NaruHina canon. It's juts the overwhelming amount of proof that has been shown that makes me believe the TRUE crack pairing here, is NS.

IMO I wouldn't jump the gun about NaruHina being cannon just yet. However, I've always wondered why he wrote some scenes the way he did. If he weren't to address certain things, I think that would just be a big troll and a waste of ink on his part.

My thinking is along the same lines as you. He did certain things a certain way, has too make you think. Or his editors did those things.

yes naruhina isn't canon as yet but in terms of the way kishi does things, imo  I think naruhina is very special to kishi. the things he does when it comes to those two gives you an idea of what he wants to do with those two and I think that a all of the scenes  were mainly kishi's doing,  the editors might have little to none  in terms of the scenes put forth. yes the editors might assist kishi but in the end it is his story

From my knowledge, the editors do have alot of say in what goes in the manga. And even though it is his own story, things do change. And I'm sure the story he envisioned 14 years ago isn't the same story he is writing now. Look at Attack on Titan. Because of the popularity and how the fans reacted to certain events, the author is changing the ending of the story. Popularity does matter to some mangaka. Not sure if this applies to Kishimoto or not.

I just want to throw this out there: Why is Hinata still alive if she didn't have some serious purpose in Naruto's life? Why would Kishi make her survive TWICE if she was just fodder and nothing more? Because he's going to put her with Naruto. There is nothing really else to say about it. From the confession, to the slap, to the 2 chapters of holding hands, NaruHina is canon in my eyes. You don't hold hands with someone who is in love with you, and say you're just friends. So, at this moment, I declare, I consider NaruHina canon. It's juts the overwhelming amount of proof that has been shown that makes me believe the TRUE crack pairing here, is NS.

IMO I wouldn't jump the gun about NaruHina being cannon just yet. However, I've always wondered why he wrote some scenes the way he did. If he weren't to address certain things, I think that would just be a big troll and a waste of ink on his part.

My thinking is along the same lines as you. He did certain things a certain way, has too make you think. Or his editors did those things.

yes naruhina isn't canon as yet but in terms of the way kishi does things, imo  I think naruhina is very special to kishi. the things he does when it comes to those two gives you an idea of what he wants to do with those two and I think that a all of the scenes  were mainly kishi's doing,  the editors might have little to none  in terms of the scenes put forth. yes the editors might assist kishi but in the end it is his story

Editors have alot of power in Japan, more then Kishi does. I've read articles that stated from manga creators themselves "I wanted too do this but editors said i had too do that." And i seem too remember that someone on here said that some of Kishi editors like NH. In Japan what editors want/say about 95% of the time it goes the editors way.

Agreed.

^

Sai may have guilted Sakura into doing it but she went through the action of it. There is a saying that goes "your actions define you." Sakura didn't go there to confess too Naruto (Sai would say that later), she went there too tell him about what the rest of Rookies want to do about Saskue. Sakura had plenty of time too stop herself from doing what she was going too do and she didn't do it.

Plus she treated Naruto and everyone else there like they had some form of a mental problem, Sakura instead out smarted herself and came across as uncaring about Narutos feelings and wishes, as well as a manipulator and a liar. But i agree that Sakura wasn't been selfish. Her intentions were good but actions outweight intention by a long shot.

Plus she would go against Naruto for the uptenth time. NS died that day, both by Naruto and Sakura.

I don't agree with the notion that she treated everyone like they had a mental issue. Sakura did what she did because of Naruto's feelings about Sasuke. Did she make erroneous choices? Yes. Did she have good intentions? Yes. If anyone is to blame, it's Kishi for writing Sakura in such a dumb way. i believe in the interview he even acknowledged the fact that the sccene didn't come out like he wanted to.

[lily567]

I don't agree with the notion that she treated everyone like they had a mental issue. Sakura did what she did because of Naruto's feelings about Sasuke. Did she make erroneous choices? Yes. Did she have good intentions? Yes. If anyone is to blame, it's Kishi for writing Sakura in such a dumb way. i believe in the interview he even acknowledged the fact that the sccene didn't come out like he wanted to.[/quote]

in the interview according to the translation I read because I don't know if there are any other translations, he said he was trying to depict an honest yet stubborn girl, and I think from that translation that a lot of ppl though he meant she was telling the truth about everything including the confession but she was still stubborn about it.

[Irielo]

in the interview according to the translation I read because I don't know if there are any other translations, he said he was trying to depict an honest yet stubborn girl, and I think from that translation that a lot of ppl though he meant she was telling the truth about everything including the confession but she was still stubborn about it.

I don't really know what happens outside the manga, I mean interviews etc. So, I don't know if this interview exists or not but in case it does, did Kishi mean that Sakura was "honest" about her so called feelings for Naruto but "stubborn" in her pursue of Sasuke? As if she loved Naruto but was kind of still obsessed by Sasuke? Did he suggest something like that according to what you've stated?

[lily567]

in the interview according to the translation I read because I don't know if there are any other translations, he said he was trying to depict an honest yet stubborn girl, and I think from that translation that a lot of ppl though he meant she was telling the truth about everything including the confession but she was still stubborn about it.

I don't really know what happens outside the manga, I mean interviews etc. So, I don't know if this interview exists or not but in case it does, did Kishi mean that Sakura was "honest" about her so called feelings for Naruto but "stubborn" in her pursue of Sasuke? As if she loved Naruto but was kind of still obsessed by Sasuke? Did he suggest something like that according to what you've stated?

I honestly don't know what he was saying when he said that and I am not too sure if that is the only translation further more the right translation.

he said he was trying to depict an honest girl yet stubborn and I think from then on as well as what I have seen online ppl, some of them are NS were saying that kishi said that so that means that she was telling the truth when she confessed. that's why I was asking if there was another translation to that interview.

[Irielo]

I honestly don't know what he was saying when he said  that and I am not too sure if that is the only translation further more the right translation.

he said he was trying to depict an honest girl yet stubborn and I think from then on  as well as what I have seen online ppl, some of them are NS were saying   that  kishi said that so that means that she was  telling the truth when she confessed. that's why  I was asking if there was another translation to that interview.

In this case, I would like to know what was the question asked to Kishi for him to say something like that. Was the question something like: "Does Sakura really loves Naruto or was her confession a lie"? Knowing what question was asked to Kishi would make things easier, again, if the interview really existed.

[lily567]

I cannot remember where exactly I saw the translated interview but if my memory serves me right, he also said in the interview that he noticed a lot of negative responses when that chapter came out, and I think it was then that he said that he was trying to depict an honest yet stubborn girl. I can't remember if there was a question asked or he just said it after he realised the negative responses he saw about that chapter

[Yamasaki Akaiko]

It's not hard to find the interview in question (Jump Festa 2010). I'm sure it's been posted here before too. Just read the first post in this thread which clarified all the updates found within the thread itself and cleared up 99% of all misconceptions (other than the fact that different people who went to the same event used slightly different words for certain things--but the main points when it came to romance: Sakura loves only Sasuke & Shikamaru doesn't have a love life planned in the works were clear to all). The part about Sakura being an honest/realistic girl I'm pretty sure comes from his design notes about her in one of the volumes. **is too lazy to check right now**

[Irielo]

It's not hard to find the interview in question (Jump Festa 2010). I'm sure it's been posted here before too. Just read the first post in this thread which clarified all the updates found within the thread itself and cleared up 99% of all misconceptions (other than the fact that different people who went to the same event used slightly different words for certain things--but the main points when it came to romance: Sakura loves only Sasuke & Shikamaru doesn't have a love life planned in the works were clear to all). The part about Sakura being an honest/realistic girl I'm pretty sure comes from his design notes about her in one of the volumes. **is too lazy to check right now**

Thank you for the link Yamasaki Akaiko! That was very useful.

[lily567]

oh yh it was there
thanks for reminding me about that

[racefan1992]

It's not hard to find the interview in question (Jump Festa 2010). I'm sure it's been posted here before too. Just read the first post in this thread which clarified all the updates found within the thread itself and cleared up 99% of all misconceptions (other than the fact that different people who went to the same event used slightly different words for certain things--but the main points when it came to romance: Sakura loves only Sasuke & Shikamaru doesn't have a love life planned in the works were clear to all). The part about Sakura being an honest/realistic girl I'm pretty sure comes from his design notes about her in one of the volumes. **is too lazy to check right now**

Thank you for posting this. I only read 5 pages of the thread but i understand enough too not read further.

Someone should show this too NS. Be kinda of like a ton of bricks hitting NS.

[itachi75]

^We have shown it to NS, the only problem is, is that it takes it as a positive thing.
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I can't remember the argument, sorry about that.   
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anyway I am back :) missed you guys

[racefan1992]

^

How can NS take it postively when it blantely says "Sakura loves only Saskue."

Boy those glasses.....

[bricksquad88]

I don't agree with the notion that she treated everyone like they had a mental issue. Sakura did what she did because of Naruto's feelings about Sasuke. Did she make erroneous choices? Yes. Did she have good intentions? Yes. If anyone is to blame, it's Kishi for writing Sakura in such a dumb way. i believe in the interview he even acknowledged the fact that the sccene didn't come out like he wanted to.

in the interview according to the translation I read because I don't know if there are any other translations, he said he was trying to depict an honest yet stubborn girl, and I think from that translation that a lot of ppl though he meant she was telling the truth about everything including the confession but she was still stubborn about it.[/quote]

Honest, yet stubborn? I guess the way the reader views it and the way the writer views it are two different things. However, in that instance I think what Kishi wnated to portray, and what ended up being portrayed are so far from each other imo he failed at depicting a honest, yet stubborn girl.

^We have shown it to NS, the only problem is, is that it takes it as a positive thing.
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I can't remember the argument, sorry about that.   
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anyway I am back :) missed you guys

Glad you're back!

[itachi75]

lol thx.
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anyway if i remember ocrrectly the argument was, "you are all looking at the wrong translations, the right translation from someone who lives in japan says, "Naruto is getting closer to sakura, even though sakura loves sasuke, she is feeling evermore closer to naruto and that is the point i (kishi)was trying to potray""
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yeah it was something like that.
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like I heard NS say, "The correct translation for 615 was, "Thank you Hinata, my life has never been one its thanks to those of you whom has stayed by my side" or something like that.
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It was trying to imply that Naruto wasn't just thanking HInata, but thanking her and itachi, nagato and the rest, which tbh while it takes away from the naruhina moment, i personally believe that translation is unique since it is cool that everyone was being referenced.
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but in either case just because someone you know that lives in japan translates the original text doesn't classify that as a official source if anything that is a fallacy, and a biased one at the looks of things.
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but anyway NS can nitpick wordings and try to lie about the interviews, by making up some BS excuse of mistranslations, but it doesn't change the fact that the scenes happened and your excuses are basically muted about by the community who trusts their translator and not NS's anomoynomus translator who may or may not even exist.
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[lily567]

the context that the manga has/ have shown it doesn't want to believe that context and claim it is a wrong translation.

why would naruto look at hinata and tell her thank you, its thanks to those of you who have been by my side,because uf that was the case he would have spoken to the entire alliance and not just hinata.

when he told hinata thank its because you have been by my side, he was saying that because she was always there for him when he needed her most, when he thought he was going to fail, she was the one who picked him back up again. it was then that he realised that she was his sun all along who always brightened his world when he was about to fall into darkness.

[racefan1992]

I'd like too know/find out who NS uses for its translator because i think from scene from 615 shown here are "relieable." Not that i doubt all of you but i have heard that one manga site is "grammer accurate" will getting words wrong but another manga site isn't good at grammer but the words themselves are accurate.

Kishi wrote those scenes (615, 633) with some intention in mind. I mean come on, reguardless of translation, CONTEXT should be the overlying rule here. Or context according too NS it seems.

[Yamasaki Akaiko]

As for the reason Jump Festa 2010 is sometimes seen as a positive for NaruSaku, it's based on using the word "close" as it can mean in English without understanding that there are different words for "close" in Japanese. In English, we use the word "close" to refer to objects being near us just as much as we use it to refer to people we have strong feelings towards. Obviously, those who consider Jump Festa 2010 to be positive are using the latter definition of "close" in their arguments. The problem is that everyone who has looked at the Japanese word used for "close" know that everyone who was there is saying that Kishimoto said that Naruto is "physically close" or "he is physically near" Sakura. In other words, Naruto is convenient and a convenient choice. However, Sakura is clearly in love with Sasuke romantically based on the words Kishimoto used to say who Sakura loves. One person got a "I'm close to the Hokage Tower" version of "close" while the other got "let's make babies" version of "love." It's not even really in dispute except that translations do not always make note of these things, which means the fact that English is broad with its meanings causes issues.

MangaStream is "grammar accurate." Its version will add words/phrases that are not in the Japanese raw at times and completely change things to make it sound "cooler" in the minds of the translators (and some readers; I just like their clearer images). However, they will always translate what they think is meant despite their changes.

MangaPanda is "Japanese literal." It will mainly translate what they think is meant and at times mess up the grammar while doing it. Personally, I think their grammar issues are due to them rushing to be the first release.

The reason that I say "what they think is meant" for both is sometimes it isn't straight forward to know exactly what Kishimoto is saying without being able to speak to him to get clarification and these fan translators obviously can't speak to him. When that happens, that's usually when we get lines in dispute (and some will then wait on Viz which can talk to Kishimoto to some extent; no idea how much they do though--the issue some have with Viz is that they will change things to satisfy US guidelines, which means at times even they will alter the "real" meaning--though they'll try to keep the "feeling"). Sometimes, both MangaStream & MangaPanda will agree with the meaning (though MP will be much more literal). Sometimes, they'll disagree and we tend to find out later who was "right" based on what happens later on in the series. It's this latter case where we usually end up with a ton of translations. The most recent example in the pairing case with a zillion different translations is Kushina's last words to Naruto. I don't really consider chapter 631 a situation with a lot of different translations (and MS & MP did agree with each other on it). There are really only two translations of that one.

Oh, and one last thing. There is a difference between MangaPanda the translators and MangaPanda the website (though I think most non-US people use MangaReader to read MangaPanda translations). The website hub has a variety of different translator groups over the years. Most websites that store "the entire series" have different translators for different chapters. There used to be a lot more different scanlator groups than there are now. Scanlator groups have always come and gone over periods of time. No one has translated the entire series, which is why even when Kishimoto sometimes repeats the exact same thing that he said 200+ chapters ago, it's translated differently "now" since these scanlators are different to the ones who were translating things back in 2006 or 2007 (and especially back in 1999 or 2000).

[itachi75]

by any chance when you guys see NS fan art of naruto and sakura kissing do you ever think "why isn't sakura hitting him?" or "that is very OOC for sakura"
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I just can't take it seriously. Sakura blushing around naruto while they are holding hands or kissing, i mean if you read the manga you see how Sakura is, she doesn't act like that.
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it is just mind boggling seeing those images.
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or maybe it is just me.
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I mean seeing naruto and ino kissing is much relistic then that because.
1. Ino thought she could fall for naruto
2. Naruto likes sexy girls.
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mind you i don't ship NaruxIno I was just making a point.

[Bubbles]

by any chance when you guys see NS fan art of naruto and sakura kissing do you ever think "why isn't sakura hitting him?" or "that is very OOC for sakura"
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I just can't take it seriously. Sakura blushing around naruto while they are holding hands or kissing, i mean if you read the manga you see how Sakura is, she doesn't act like that.
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it is just mind boggling seeing those images.
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or maybe it is just me.
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I mean seeing naruto and ino kissing is much relistic then that because.
1. Ino thought she could fall for naruto
2. Naruto likes sexy girls.
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mind you i don't ship NaruxIno I was just making a point.

Ino never said that. But yes, I do find it ooc and a bit disturbing. NaruIno is crack, and furthermore, for me, it's easier to swallow when you don't have NaruIno screaming in your ear that it'll be canon.

[MichaelInsanity]

Yea, she's right, Ino said that in a filler moment.

[itachi75]

  oh I am sorry about that.
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In either case I just can't comprehend it. I just seriously can't see Sakura doing anything to naruto that is romantic because it just is so OOC. I can't really put it into words.
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ok maybe this helps.
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Imagine Madara blushing and kissing Naruto, when just a moment ago hey were fighting to the death.
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It is just like that.
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I know sakura and naruto are friends, but they aren't firends in that aspect.
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It is just so impossible to even attempt to rationalize.
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that being said NS has been making more arguments that, "Sakura and naruto have already kissed and this is evidenced by Sakura's recent concern for Naruto"
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or this one is better,
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"The reason Sakura wasn't called to help Naruto defeat obito was due to the fact that naruto called his friends, and since Naruto considers Sakura his lover, he would never call her"
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Seriously NS? Seriously?
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oh well.

[racefan1992]

^

Naruto has never kissed a girl in his life.

On-panel hand holding is more credible then some-made-up-off-panel-tongue-hockey-make-out-scene-that-doesnm't-exist-at-all-that-NS-seems-forget-that-Naruto-is-a-shonen-manga.

Kishi/editors, please i beg of you parties, END THIS SHIT NOW!!!!

[lily567]

  oh I am sorry about that.
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In either case I just can't comprehend it. I just seriously can't see Sakura doing anything to naruto that is romantic because it just is so OOC. I can't really put it into words.
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ok maybe this helps.
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Imagine Madara blushing and kissing Naruto, when just a moment ago hey were fighting to the death.
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It is just like that.
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I know sakura and naruto are friends, but they aren't firends in that aspect.
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It is just so impossible to even attempt to rationalize.
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that being said NS has been making more arguments that, "Sakura and naruto have already kissed and this is evidenced by Sakura's recent concern for Naruto"
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or this one is better,
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"The reason Sakura wasn't called to help Naruto defeat obito was due to the fact that naruto called his friends, and since Naruto considers Sakura his lover, he would never call her"
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Seriously NS? Seriously?
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oh well.

when did naruto and sakura kissed and what part in the manga, I will like to know that one
as for the other one, so just because sakura didn't go up because she was doing her job means she is his lover.. seriously-_______-

on a serious note it needs to stop with the ridiculous arguments. this is foolishness as far as I am concerned, if it wants to argue with another ship it needs to use an argument which imo is valid and has some back up points from the manga.

naruto and sakura are strictly friends/comrades/teammates  and that is it. sakura's heart is and has always been belong to sasuke so it needs to get that through its thick skull. naruto does not love sakura if he did he would have said so himself and not some third party.

as for naruto's feelings for hinata had started in part one just like sakura's feelings for sasuke(and hinata's feelings for naruto) but just a little while after and was maturing through the course of the story as well as through  the interaction between naruto and hinata. if naruto wasn't interested in that sort of way towards hinata, the actions (such as the handhold) he did towards her would not have been there.

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