Re: NaruHina, SasuSaku and NarSak chances of happen

by **engetsu** Tue Jul 02, 2013 4:07 am

lily567 wrote:
engetsu wrote:SasuSaku isn't as likely as people seem to think.

I remember Sakura saying she knows Sasuke's smile is fake with the weirdest look on her face, like it's killer her or something.

And think about it, Sasuke can never fully atone for what he did, there's no real way for him to ever go back to Konoha again.

I strongly believe he's going to die in defense of Konoha eventually, it's the only endgame I can see.

Naruhina obviously stands a good chance at this point, but something tells me it's not going to be as simple as that. I can see something happening to keep it from happening.

the only thing would be sakura suddenly falling for naruto and to be honest naruto isn't a child who would jump around saying "sakura finally loves me " he is mature. we have to wait and see how naruto's feelings stand concerning both women. I find that naruto is smiling a lot more when he is around hinata than with sakura. naruhina stands a good chance because of hinata positively supporting naruto and naruto giving positive feedback

Don't get me wrong, the whole NaruSaku thing is done, I don't see that happening in a million years. It's plain to see now.

I see something else happening like Kishi simply forgetting to build on 615, or him deciding that either Naruto or Hinata must die.

Those are still possibilities at this point, IMO.

by **engetsu** Tue Jul 02, 2013 4:09 am

Irielo wrote:
engetsu wrote:SasuSaku isn't as likely as people seem to think.

I remember Sakura saying she knows Sasuke's smile is fake with the weirdest look on her face, like it's killer her or something.

And think about it, Sasuke can never fully atone for what he did, there's no real way for him to ever go back to Konoha again.

I strongly believe he's going to die in defense of Konoha eventually, it's the only endgame I can see.

Naruhina obviously stands a good chance at this point, but something tells me it's not going to be as simple as that. I can see something happening to keep it from happening.

The only thing which can keep it from happening would be if Hinata and Sasuke die. If you tell me that all these characters will get a sudden twist of heart, then all the developments and the characters themselves will somehow lose their credibility.

That is still totally possible, a war is going on after all.

I have a feeling that

Spoiler:

.

by **Irielo** Tue Jul 02, 2013 4:23 am

^Man!!!! That's a pessimistic vision but it could happen though. I'm hoping to see Hinata and Naruto making a combo attack.

I'm hoping to see Sakura, if Sasuke turns mad again, punching him and Sasuke crying, asking for forgiveness.

But that's maybe too much asked.

by **Batokusanagi** Tue Jul 02, 2013 8:04 am

engetsu wrote:
Don't get me wrong, the whole NaruSaku thing is done, I don't see that happening in a million years. It's plain to see now.

I see something else happening like Kishi simply forgetting to build on 615, or him deciding that either Naruto or Hinata must die.

Those are still possibilities at this point, IMO.

Kishi has already built on 615 (e.g 633).
Naruto dying? No, just no chance of that happening. As for Hinata, she could've died in 437 or 615, easy, but Kishi decided not to kill her off. I think she's safe too.

by **engetsu** Tue Jul 02, 2013 8:58 am

Batokusanagi wrote:
engetsu wrote:
Don't get me wrong, the whole NaruSaku thing is done, I don't see that happening in a million years. It's plain to see now.

I see something else happening like Kishi simply forgetting to build on 615, or him deciding that either Naruto or Hinata must die.

Those are still possibilities at this point, IMO.
Kishi has already built on 615 (e.g 633).
Naruto dying? No, just no chance of that happening. As for Hinata, she could've died in 437 or 615, easy, but Kishi decided not to kill her off. I think she's safe too.

633 was a nice flashback but I wouldn't call it "building on" 615. Right now I can see the war eventually ending and kishi just moving on. With maybe Naruto saying "thanks a lot!" or something along those lines. (this isn't what I want, but it what I could see happening)

The issue with the whole thing (and something seldom discussed) is the pay-off and how it could possibly happen.

The nature of both characters makes it difficult to put into play. Outside of war, Hinata is very reserved and isn't the kind to make a move. And naruto is far from a smooth operator and hasn't shown the emotional maturity to approach someone and break that ice.

That's the reason the last major naruhina moments have been in the midst of war/battle. It's easier to connect in those tense situations. But when things are quiet those moments have to be initiated which is much harder to do. It's also the reason that naruhina was neglected after 437, kishi didn't know how to advance it in a way that makes sense and is consistent with the characters.

If kishi is serious about naruhina (which he probably is) he has his work cut out for him.

by **Irielo** Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:20 am

^ Then, what is the point showing Hinata resolved and determined to walk side by side with Naruto and holding his hand AFTER the war?

http//:www.mangadoom.com/Naruto/573/10/

Both of them , Naruto and Hinata evolved as character. That's quite obvious that Naruto is becoming more mature and that Hinata has become more self-confident.

That's actually what makes this story so interesting. If the story was remaining the same way it was in part 1: Naruto behaving always like a jerk, Hinata, the shy girl who does not dare (even that began to change in part 1), then I don't think I would be still in it.

Anyway, if you just take a look at all the topics in this forum, you might find enough that supports NaruHina and their development.
Personally, I don't understand how you can state something like: "Kishi didn't know how to advance it in a way that makes sense and is consistent with the characters."

On the contrary I find Kishi very subtle and clever in the way he is setting thing slowly but surely.

by **engetsu** Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:36 am

Irielo wrote:^ Then, what is the point showing Hinata resolved and determined to walk side by side with Naruto and holding his hand AFTER the war?

http//:www.mangadoom.com/Naruto/573/10/

Both of them , Naruto and Hinata evolved as character. That's quite obvious that Naruto is becoming more mature and that Hinata has become more self-confident.

That's actually what makes this story so interesting. If the story was remaining the same way it was in part 1: Naruto behaving always like a jerk, Hinata, the shy girl who does not dare (even that began to change in part 1), then I don't think I would be still in it.

Anyway, if you just take a look at all the topics in this forum, you might find enough that supports NaruHina and their development.
Personally, I don't understand how you can state something like: "Kishi didn't know how to advance it in a way that makes sense and is consistent with the characters."

On the contrary I find Kishi very subtle and clever in the way he is setting thing slowly but surely.

I agree that the characters have come a long way, but their evolution won't change who they are fundamentally. For example, in ch 631 naruto has a laugh at Sakura's expense by making her angry over his dads question. While he's not the jerk he was in ch.1 he's still a kid a heart and it shows. Hinata showed that she changed when she spilled the beans to Naruto. But she'll always be quiet and shy, just less so. (which is why the war setting was crucial, it allowed her to be more assertive)

The ball is in naruto's court once the war is over, and the way I see it he still needs some growing up to do before he knows what to do with it.

by **Irielo** Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:48 am

That's why I'm telling you there are enough topics here which deal with those issues.

You are referring to Naruto and Hinata's personalities. And the personality is something like the look, something essentially superficial whereas Naruto and Hinata are connected by something deeper which goes beyond all those superficial aspects.

Their heart or soul are connected and there are enough hints since the beginning of the manga which show that.

Please, just read the different topics on this forum. They have enough strong arguments, enough illustrations and enough examples to support what I'm now writing.
( I don't know how long I'll be there now as it is getting late here and I have to wake up early tomorrow.)

by **engetsu** Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:57 am

Irielo wrote:That's why I'm telling you there are enough topics here which deal with those issues.

You are referring to Naruto and Hinata's personalities. And the personality is something like the look, something essentially superficial whereas Naruto and Hinata are connected by something deeper which goes beyond all those superficial aspects.

Their heart or soul are connected and there are enough hints since the beginning of the manga which show that.

Please, just read the different topics on this forum. They have enough strong arguments, enough illustrations and enough examples to support what I'm now writing.
( I don't know how long I'll be there now as it is getting late here and I have to wake up early tomorrow.)

totally agree, there's just a certain someone who needs to get that through his head

by **Irielo** Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:05 am

Then, like I wrote, if you need some inspiration to convince this "certain someone", there are more than enough intelligent and well-put arguments here. And if this person doesn't want to understand, just leave him/her.

I had my hard times too with some...

by **Batokusanagi** Tue Jul 02, 2013 2:28 pm

engetsu wrote:
Batokusanagi wrote:Kishi has already built on 615 (e.g 633).
Naruto dying? No, just no chance of that happening. As for Hinata, she could've died in 437 or 615, easy, but Kishi decided not to kill her off. I think she's safe too.

633 was a nice flashback but I wouldn't call it "building on" 615. Right now I can see the war eventually ending and kishi just moving on. With maybe Naruto saying "thanks a lot!" or something along those lines. (this isn't what I want, but it what I could see happening)

The issue with the whole thing (and something seldom discussed) is the pay-off and how it could possibly happen.

The nature of both characters makes it difficult to put into play. Outside of war, Hinata is very reserved and isn't the kind to make a move. And naruto is far from a smooth operator and hasn't shown the emotional maturity to approach someone and break that ice.

That's the reason the last major naruhina moments have been in the midst of war/battle. It's easier to connect in those tense situations. But when things are quiet those moments have to be initiated which is much harder to do. It's also the reason that naruhina was neglected after 437, kishi didn't know how to advance it in a way that makes sense and is consistent with the characters.

If kishi is serious about naruhina (which he probably is) he has his work cut out for him.

Then what would you call 633? It's clear that that moment gave her the extra confidence to add the "forever" part to her previous vow in 573. Kishi could've just "moved on" from NH a while ago with Naruto just saying "thanks a lot!", but he didn't and instead made their interaction even more personal and intimate, having Hinata promise to herself that she'd stop chasing after Naruto when the war is over and culminating with the hand holding in 615.

You're also getting both Naruto's and Hinata's personalities wrong. Hinata's shy and quiet days are in the past, now she's not afraid to speak her mind and is confident enough to to say she will stop chasing after Naruto when the war is over and Naruto hasn't been in a situation where he needs to approach someone who likes him (until now) so you can't really say that he doesn't have the emotional maturity to know how to respond, but contrary to what you think: NH wasn't neglected after 437, but what we got then was a progression showing that Naruto does care about Hinata a lot, that is not the kid he used to be and the he is mature enough to accept her feelings. Next time they met after Naruto's fight with Pain we got 558/559. Clearly, in that time before the war started, Naruto's view of Hinata changed.
I wouldn't call that neglect.

We're getting NH during the war because of Naruto's and Hinata's character or because it's "easier to connect" in the middle of battle (which doesn't quite make sense to me), but because the war, as part of the main plot, take priority. Not everything happening in this manga is/has to be related to romance. Anyway, there really haven't been that may quiet moments for Naruto to ponder about his love life.

by **racefan1992** Tue Jul 02, 2013 3:24 pm

Hinata has changed who she is like when she fought Neji. She knew she had no chance of winning but she basically said "i may not win but giving up isn't an option. I will change who i am.........even if i have to die for it."

And when she fought Pain/Pein: "I'm tired of chasing the person i love. I've always wanted to be next him, with him. I may not be able to win against this enemy but i'll give all my strenght and my life to protect him."

Of course she never said those things directly i'm just puting words to her actions. That is fundemental change too me.

I do not mean to pile on but just givng my .2 cents.

by **Bubbles** Tue Jul 02, 2013 5:02 pm

SasuSaku isn't as likely as people seem to think.

I remember Sakura saying she knows Sasuke's smile is fake with the weirdest look on her face, like it's killer her or something.

Wait a minute, are you referring to chapter 635? Because IIRC, Sai is the one who said Sakura's words may be sincere, but her smile was false. I believe this means that although she trusts that Sasuke is on their side, that he is still not back to normal. Not completely. Which I expect since he's been through the mill, and Sakura is still ignorant about what happened to his clan.

And think about it, Sasuke can never fully atone for what he did, there's no real way for him to ever go back to Konoha again.

I personally don't think that's true. Gaara ended up becoming Kazekage of the entire village and he was so frightening his own siblings were scared of him, as well as his village. He's killed many people and even tried to kill Naruto and his friends (even Lee when he was helpless in his sleep.) Of course at first he wasn't that welcomed, but once he proved himself, didn't his entire village throw him a welcome back party?

If there's anything I've learned about this manga, it's that Kishi doesn't believe there is a "point of no return" so long as you have strong bonds, love and understanding on your side. Sasuke has bonds and love, and I'm sure soon he will have understanding. Not just him, but everyone. Because isn't that the point? Jiraiya hoping that some day the whole world will come to understand each other. I don't see how that can be accomplished and Sasuke gets shunned at the same time.

I think this war is definitely going to be opening up a lot of eyes. Remember, Sasuke is meant to be a victim of the times, not another evil villain. Naruto and Sakura will forgive him (I don't see any lingering grudges coming his way from them).

I am actually confident that if Team 7 survives (which I am quite certain of), that Sasuke will go back to Konoha. (Which is required for him to try to be Hokage anyhow) I also feel like this is the perfect chance for T7 to unite again and this time, Sakura and Naruto can help fix Sasuke. He no longer has revenge clouding his mind. Now his goal is to protect Konoha and become Hokage. I believe it will be Sasuke's method of doing things that will come into conflict with Naruto and himself, not his path.

I strongly believe he's going to die in defense of Konoha eventually, it's the only endgame I can see.

I hope not, I don't think my heart could take it.

Spoiler:

by **CoolChels** Tue Jul 02, 2013 5:14 pm

Don't worry, she won't, it wouldn't make sense neither for her to die just like it wouldn't for Naruto and Sasuke.

by **engetsu** Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:47 pm

Wait a minute, are you referring to chapter 635? Because IIRC, Sai is the one who said Sakura's words may be sincere, but her smile was false. I believe this means that although she trusts that Sasuke is on their side, that he is still not back to normal. Not completely. Which I expect since he's been through the mill, and Sakura is still ignorant about what happened to his clan.

Misunderstanding on my part, but the point still stands, Sakura doesn't trust Sasuke, which is completely normal, considering he tried to kill her in cold blood.

I personally don't think that's true. Gaara ended up becoming Kazekage of the entire village and he was so frightening his own siblings were scared of him, as well as his village. He's killed many people and even tried to kill Naruto and his friends (even Lee when he was helpless in his sleep.) Of course at first he wasn't that welcomed, but once he proved himself, didn't his entire village throw him a welcome back party?

Gaara was a twisted human being but he was always acting in the interest of his village, to the Sand village he was an evil kid that was very useful, when he lightened up, they were more than glad to know the most powerful shinobi in the village wasn't a psychopath anymore.

Naturally, this doesn't apply to Sasuke, he actions were never in the interest of anyone but his own and he spat in the face of the amnesty that was given to him.

If there's anything I've learned about this manga, it's that Kishi doesn't believe there is a "point of no return" so long as you have strong bonds, love and understanding on your side. Sasuke has bonds and love, and I'm sure soon he will have understanding. Not just him, but everyone. Because isn't that the point? Jiraiya hoping that some day the whole world will come to understand each other. I don't see how that can be accomplished and Sasuke gets shunned at the same time.

I think this war is definitely going to be opening up a lot of eyes. Remember, Sasuke is meant to be a victim of the times, not another evil villain. Naruto and Sakura will forgive him (I don't see any lingering grudges coming his way from them).

And you are exactly right, he is meant to be the victim of the world's hateful ways. He isn't going to die a villain, I see his death to be his redemption. That's the reason Itachi cared so much for Sasuke, because Sasuke is the one to redeem the Uchiha name and in doing so will break the cycle.

It's only natural for the Uchiha to be stopped by one of their own.

Sasuke dying however? That would completely end the Uchiha clan, and kill his other goal off which was to revive the Uchiha and his goal to become Hokage and change the system.

Perhaps he meant honor for revival, but what's the point if he's the last one and then he dies? That's also a tragic ending for Team 7 and poops all over Naruto's resolve to save his friend as well. ("How can I become Hokage if I can't even save one friend?")

It would set the record straight and revive the honor of the Uchiha clan. And as for him becomming Hokage, I think we can all agree there are a dozen people who stand a better chance, if Naruto and Sakura weren't around he would be hated by the entire village, including (and maybe especially) his classmates. Remember, the Hokage must be accepted to become Hokage, not the other way around.

I'm not saying Sasuke deserves to die and that it wouldn't be sad, but at this point I think it makes a lot of sense and would go a long way in redeeming one of the most controversial characters in the series.

by **Irielo** Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:49 pm

Sorry people, I think we are going off topic. We could discuss about these issues (Sasuke dying...) in the section "Naruto Discussion".

by **Haru Glory** Fri Aug 16, 2013 8:01 am

Narusaku will happen the day Ash Ketchum from Pokemon becomes a Pokemon Master. NaruHina, SasuSaku and NarSak chances of happen - Page 2 982020691

Sasusaku's Chances are 80% for now and Naruhina's Chances is 100%

by **Aelita** Fri Aug 16, 2013 8:30 am

^I'm still holding out on Ash actually becoming a Pokemon master doe lmao

I'll try giving percentages this time:
Naruhina 85%
Narusaku 30%
SasuSaku 42%
But I still stand by what I said before.

by **Haru Glory** Fri Aug 16, 2013 8:37 am

^A better example would be Narusaku will happen as soon as Pikachu decides to go back into it's Pokeball. NaruHina, SasuSaku and NarSak chances of happen - Page 2 2992799908

NaruHina, SasuSaku and NarSak chances of happen - Page 2 2992799908

At this point we need to see how they interact outside of battle since there is only so much they can do to help a relationship in battle.

by Guest Mon Aug 19, 2013 7:07 pm

NaruHina:95% (Completely honest, one moment away)
NaruSaku:5%(probably less)
SasuSaku:50% (Sasuke will always be crazy in my eyes)

by **Zora** Mon Aug 19, 2013 9:38 pm

I really hope you guys will read this fully <3!!! (I know, I hate reading long stuff too xD)

- Why you support NH;

Like another user stated, I have an emotional connection to NaruHina and SasuSaku...
Hinata and Sakura's feelings, I can understand it so well and I love how Kishimoto writes them in a way, it gets me emotional.
Of course they are billions of reasons why, but awwwww now I'm getting all mushy!!!

- Arguments pro NH;

-Hinata's feelings for Naruto; I think her feelings for Naruto is very mature, it can't be changed and I want her to be with the man she loves.
-War arc and development; Hand holding, encouraging others (with the alliance as well)

I'm going to give some arguments about the chapter 64 cover.

Spoiler:

These are some of the arguments I've heard from a lot of people...

First argument:

"It was not a romantic moment in any way, it was simply just an important moment to the war."

I think it was very romantic, in fact too romantic <3
Naruto didn't need to hold Hinata's hand to transfer chakra.
It's 100% safe to say that they are other ways to transfer Kurama's chakra like putting his palms behind Hinata's back and etc.
In my opinion, Kishimoto wanted it to make it obviously romantic, because hand holding is meant to be very romantic especially in Asia.
This is simply simple...
Hand holding: Romantic.
Cover: Important.
Hand holding + Cover: Important and Romantic.

Second Argument:

"When Sakura hugged Naruto after Pain/Nagato was defeated, it had a romantic atmosphere, characters around were blushing. Hinata and Naruto's hand holding moment happened during a war, it's not romantic at all with dead people everywhere."

This person was talking about the following panel:

Spoiler:

This scene personally didn't bother me at all because of how Hinata reacted and how Naruto didn't hug her back.
Like other NaruSaku moments, I thought it was a love and caring moment, but as a comrade and a best friend.
Sakura cares a lot for Naruto, but that does not mean she does in a romantic way, nor did the author state that she has romantic feelings for Naruto in any way.
I think it's the difference between the friend/comrade kind of caring and the romantic kind of caring.
After Pain/Pein was defeated, yes It could very well be considered as a romantic moment.
But I want to talk about the impact of these two moments (This could sound a bit biased).
Naruto and Sakura both have a very strong friendship/comrade bond.
That means the hug has less of an impact because they both already had a strong bond going on already.
Culture wise in Asia.
Friends (male or female) can hug each other, Japanese girls LOVE hugging and they hug very often.
Opposite sex hugging is a bit different story, but this mostly depends on what kind of bonds they have.
In this case, Naruto and Sakura again, have a very strong friendship and we know Sakura does not romantically love Naruto atm, which is why it's safe to level the impact down then what a hug actually means.
A hug can be considered showing caring and worrying when someone was in danger/conflict or just showing friendliness, it doesn't always have to be romantic.
Hand holding is very rare in Japan/Asia (I don't know about China), how many girls or boys (even in Anime/Mangas) do you see holding hands?
The impact of NaruHina hand holding.
Yeah I know it happened when it was in the middle of a tragic war and a lot of shinobi in the alliance were dead...
But have you ever gave a thought that it is very important and more exaggerated by the writer because it happened during something so tragic?
But I think that's is just my opinion so pass.
Hugging has broader way of looking at it's definition and meaning, it has the friendly caring way and the romantic way which depends on the bonds.
The hand holding does not have that much of a broader meaning to it, in fact it's pretty straight forward especially in the NH moment <3<3

This is maybe a pretty bad argument... I think only two person said it U_U...

"Kishimoto did not want NaruHina hand holding to be the important part of the book cover, it was Neji that was important because Kishimoto usually puts important events in the middle of the cover."

Well ok then why were they in the front and Neji was in the back?...
It was clearly meant to be focused on NaruHina, and no Kishimoto does not always put important objects in the middle, the book cover is so small to fit everything anyway o_o
Kind of back to the hugging and hand holding scene.
I wouldn't have said anything if the hugging was in the cover of the volume.
Every Naruto fans who read the manga will see the volume cover eventually, and this is even if they never cared about pairings whatsoever.
That is the reason why I keep bringing this up because It's more than something romantic, it's more than just pairing fan service.

- Why you dislike or just don't care about NS;

I don't dislike or care about the pairing at all, what's the point in obsessing over my hate for the rival pairing when I already know my pairing is sealed deal? ;)
I dislike what NaruSaku fans has to say sometimes, they go off topic or does not reply to my posts in detail one by one...
They would rather ignore what I said and say what they have to say rather than replying to me...
They can ship NaruSaku however they want, their attitudes toward the pairing doesn't bother me.
But some of their arguments do bother me, but I deal with it anyway... I'm sure they feel the same way about their pairing like us as well ^_^

- Arguments against NS;

ABOVE!!! :3

- Your opinion about SS;

Now it's like whatever to me if it does not become solid canon.
There is a high chance that Sasuke might still have evil intentions, he does not care about romance at all in my opinion.
All I want from this pairing is that they both know that they have feelings for each other...
I rather have Sasuke and Sakura die together than them being with someone else, I can't see them with other people.
So if something major happens to them I'd be ok with it as long as they know each other's feelings... T_T
This pairing is so complicated, ME GUSTA TASTE.

- Chances of each paring be cannon (%)

NaruHina (90-100%) This pairing FTW <3
SasuSaku Canon? 50%. Do they have feelings for each other? (80-90%) :3
NaruSaku(10-20%) ;)

by **ClassyLPS** Wed Aug 21, 2013 7:35 pm

@SaCuol

Holy snapple crack. Gurl, that's like a thread right there! Nice, nice, I liked reading it. NaruHina, SasuSaku and NarSak chances of happen - Page 2 1906553478

NaruHina, SasuSaku and NarSak chances of happen - Page 2 1906553478

I'd give you a rep but I'm on my phone.. NaruHina, SasuSaku and NarSak chances of happen - Page 2 3516892631

by **Zora** Wed Aug 21, 2013 8:28 pm

ClassyLPS wrote:@SaCuol

Holy snapple crack. Gurl, that's like a thread right there! Nice, nice, I liked reading it.
I'd give you a rep but I'm on my phone..

Wow thank you very much!!! NaruHina, SasuSaku and NarSak chances of happen - Page 2 1906553478

It's ok if you don't :^)

by **kagome1991** Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:45 am

^ Pretty great post there SaCuol! I read all the way through! NaruHina, SasuSaku and NarSak chances of happen - Page 2 2865921181

by **Haru Glory** Sat Aug 24, 2013 4:22 pm

NaruHina's chances are 98% at the moment with the other 2 percent being that it is left ambiguous.

SasuSaku's chances are 90% with the other 10% being that it is left ambigious.

NaruSaku has a 1% chance just for laughs.

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