Specific Theme's In Naruto

So I watched a video by Forneverworld which I thought was pretty interesting. I don't think I'm allowed to link video's so the name of the video is: "The Theme of Naruto is Ruined?" Essentially, Forneverworld discusses the theme of "hard work vs destiny" which was very prevalent in Part 1 of Naruto. So, do you guys think this theme has been "ruined," or is it still in tact?

I think the theme is still there but I don't think that the manga opposes the way some might think "hard work" to "destiny".
Just look at the last chapter for instance (670), Hagoromo explained to Naruto that his son Ashura had no talent and had to work hard to reach where he reached. He even made a parallel with Naruto to suggest that children don't necessarily inherit from their parents' qualities. However, there is a kind of paradox because Hagoromo told Naruto that he is Ashura's reincarnation (still have to know if it's the exact translation), which belongs more to the "destiny" concept.

Besides, I think that's actually more the theme: the inter-influence  between "hard work" and "destiny". It's not really about who is going to "win" between those two but how one participates to the development of the other one. The Great Toad Sage for instance with his prophecy about the future and the fact that Naruto is supposedly the boy of the prophecy is a theme belonging to the concept of destiny. But would have Naruto been this boy of the prophecy if he did not work hard to become who he is now? I don't think so.

There is also a point which came through the speeches of some villains of the story (Nagato, Obito and Madara) describing the Shinobi World as a cursed world... That has also something to do with destiny but Naruto's challenge now is to show that this destiny can be changed. And Sasuke's challenge for instance is to redeem the Uchiha clan and stop the curse which was associated to this clan by creating something new (not repeating the mistakes of the past)...

I think thus that the story's theme is not "hard work" vs "destiny" but to make it simple: If you do not work, if you do not put any effort into something, don't expect it to change by itself...

I don't get why everyone is so angry about Naruto being the chosen one here's how I see it.
1. The manga is called Naruto so he is gonna be the most special because he's the main character.
2. Pein was also thought to be he chosen one and so was Minato and they tried and couldn't change the world enough. Hashirama is also a reincarnation of the younger brother but he also couldn't change the world and in some ways made it worse by continuing to fight Madara.
3. Naruto may be the chosen one but he did get to where he was because he WORKED for it. He didn't just expect to get to where he is he worked. Hard work > genius every time every day.

Dianahinkle wrote:I don't get why everyone is so angry about Naruto being the chosen one here's how I see it.

May I ask you why do you think that "everyone is so angry" about it? I did not have this feeling while reading the different comments on this forum.

Not on this forum but on lots of youtuber videos some people on tumblr and on narutofan forums.

It's like it's fine that from the very beginning naruto had the strongest demon inside of him that would save him with chakura at the last minute is totally fine but him being the chosen one that's "ruining the theme of naruto".

Dianahinkle wrote:Not on this forum but on lots of youtuber videos some people on tumblr and on narutofan forums.

It's like it's fine that from the very beginning naruto had the strongest demon inside of him that would save him with chakura at the last minute is totally fine but him being the chosen one that's "ruining the theme of naruto".

Like I wrote in my post above, Naruto worked hard to become the one he is now. I don’t think he would have been this „boy of the prophecy“ if he did not work that hard. His destiny in the begining seemed to have been against him: orphan, a Jinchuuriki feared and hated from most of the people of the village...

But that did not stop him to have a dream and to have his own Ninja way which progressively enabled him to have strong bonds with people and to work on himself to become the one he has become. This manga actually hides a lot of spiritual concepts belonging to different cultures actually and one should not get surprised that the concept of destiny will be present in the story.

Again, I don’t think that Kishimoto opposed hard work to destiny because it is the same destiny which influences the characters to orient their lives in a direction or in another. In another words, no one can kill destiny but one can influence it depending on what he/she decides to do with his/her life...

Moreover, correct me if I’m wrong, but the last chapter (671) showed that Naruto and Sasuke have been chosen. The idea that both have been chosen is thus a sign that there is a will to change the course of how things evolved until now.

Well, it does "ruin the theme of Naruto" depending on what you think the "theme of Naruto" happens to be. That's an individual thing. For some people, the theme of Naruto relates to "destiny" or "hard work."

Personally, none of those things have ever been the "theme of Naruto" for me. For me, the "theme of Naruto" is the idea that "no one is purely evil" and "understanding is possible if everyone actually tries to talk to each other." Those are the things that I've felt has always been part of the series (and I became more convinced those are kind of the general themes when Kishimoto talked about war & being lucky to be able to basically avoid the horrors of it--which his parents I believe lived through, if I'm remembering that interview correctly). The fact that I honestly disliked or hated almost every character at their introduction (Naruto included) but grew to like or love them as the series progressed is one of the main reasons why I think "trying to understand each other" is supposed to be a much bigger deal than anything involving "destiny/hard work." It helps that I find this series special for being really the only one where the idea that "you should never judge a book by its cover" has been completely accurate for me.

But as Kishimoto mentioned in the interview that I hope I'm remembering correctly, he rather each person decide for themselves what the theme(s) of Naruto are on their own.

These are very good thoughts. I appreciate the responses.

Dianahinkle wrote:I don't get why everyone is so angry about Naruto being the chosen one here's how I see it.
1. The manga is called Naruto so he is gonna be the most special because he's the main character.
2. Pein was also thought to be he chosen one and so was Minato and they tried and couldn't change the world enough. Hashirama is also a reincarnation of the younger brother but he also couldn't change the world and in some ways made it worse by continuing to fight Madara.
3. Naruto may be the chosen one but he did get to where he was because he WORKED for it. He didn't just expect to get to where he is he worked. Hard work > genius every time every day.

To the bold: Agreed. I don't know why alot of people try and discredit the work Naruto had to put in, even if he''s Ashura's reincarnation is irrespective of the theme of destiny vs hard work. Although it can be argued that in Part 2 with Naruto being the "child of the prophecy" and "the chosen one" Neji was accurate in saying that you're destiny cannot be changed, and that the path Naruto is on right now is the path that he would have ended up on eventually. To anyone who states this as a point of contention, I strongly disagree. I don't think that is an accurate depiction of the theme of destiny vs. hard work in Naruto.

Irielo wrote:

Dianahinkle wrote:Not on this forum but on lots of youtuber videos some people on tumblr and on narutofan forums.

It's like it's fine that from the very beginning naruto had the strongest demon inside of him that would save him with chakura at the last minute is totally fine but him being the chosen one that's "ruining the theme of naruto".

Like I wrote in my post above, Naruto worked hard to become the one he is now. I don’t think he would have been this „boy of the prophecy“ if he did not work that hard. His destiny in the begining seemed to have been against him: orphan, a Jinchuuriki feared and hated from most of the people of the village...

But that did not stop him to have a dream and to have his own Ninja way which progressively enabled him to have strong bonds with people and to work on himself to become the one he has become. This manga actually hides a lot of spiritual concepts belonging to different cultures actually and one should not get surprised that the concept of destiny will be present in the story.

Again, I don’t think that Kishimoto opposed hard work to destiny because it is the same destiny which influences the characters to orient their lives in a direction or in another. In another words, no one can kill destiny but one can influence it depending on what he/she decides to do with his/her life...

Moreover, correct me if I’m wrong, but the last chapter (671) showed that Naruto and Sasuke have been chosen. The idea that both have been chosen is thus a sign that there is a will to change the course of how things evolved until now.

I agree. I also believe that in the most recent chapter, the sage also briefly touched upon this idea, but acknowledged that it was not Naruto(Ashura) alone, nor Sasuke(Indra) alone who woud change the fate of the world, but them working together collectively, which goes against "the natural flow of things" as the SO6P put it.

Yamasaki Akaiko wrote:Well, it does "ruin the theme of Naruto" depending on what you think the "theme of Naruto" happens to be. That's an individual thing. For some people, the theme of Naruto relates to "destiny" or "hard work."

Personally, none of those things have ever been the "theme of Naruto" for me. For me, the "theme of Naruto" is the idea that "no one is purely evil" and "understanding is possible if everyone actually tries to talk to each other." Those are the things that I've felt has always been part of the series (and I became more convinced those are kind of the general themes when Kishimoto talked about war & being lucky to be able to basically avoid the horrors of it--which his parents I believe lived through, if I'm remembering that interview correctly). The fact that I honestly disliked or hated almost every character at their introduction (Naruto included) but grew to like or love them as the series progressed is one of the main reasons why I think "trying to understand each other" is supposed to be a much bigger deal than anything involving "destiny/hard work." It helps that I find this series special for being really the only one where the idea that "you should never judge a book by its cover" has been completely accurate for me.

But as Kishimoto mentioned in the interview that I hope I'm remembering correctly, he rather each person decide for themselves what the theme(s) of Naruto are on their own.

I agree with everything you said. I too, did not like the characters when I was first introduced to the series. But over time they really did grow on me and now Naruto is probably one of my favorite series to watch/read. But, I digress. I would also add that a main theme of Naruto is the power/strength in working together to accomplish one's goals as opposed to handling everything on your own. And even further, having faith in your friends/family to support you in your time of need and vice versa.

To the bold: If that is true, then I think that is a very mature way to approach a series. It allows the audience to form their own opinions about the characters, which could result in a multitude of opinions/good discussion about the dichotomy of certain characters/relationships/themes etc.