Kibahina is Naruhina's biggest canon rival for hinata?

Well the last part I disagree with remember in chapter 611, he told Naruto not to act tough because Hinata was here.

he even Teased Hinata for fainting after seeing Naruto bandaged up.

So yes Kiba has teased both Naruto and Hinata about something, he isn't as dense as Naruto, he knows full well that Hinata loves Naruto, he might not say it, but he definitely knows that there is something between the two and he has most likely know for a very long time as well.

51-mustang wrote:Well the last part I disagree with remember in chapter 611, he told Naruto not to act tough because Hinata was here.

he even Teased Hinata for fainting after seeing Naruto bandaged up.

So yes Kiba has teased both Naruto and Hinata about something, he isn't as dense as Naruto, he knows full well that Hinata loves Naruto, he might not say it, but he definitely knows that there is something between the two and he has most likely know for a very long time as well.

I didn't say he hasn't teased Hinata for "something", just that he hasn't teased her for her feelings for Naruto.

Kiba says "Hinata already went out of concern for him! But when she saw him all bandaged up, she almost fainted... that embarrassed her so much that she didn't dare show her face! Hahaha!".

He's laughing about her reaction (hiding her face from embarrassment) to having seen Naruto covered in bandages.

I don't think Kiba knew full well that Hinata loves Naruto, most certainly not "for a very long time". In part one he was never present in the major scenes that showed Hinata > Naruto that would allow him to consider such a conclusion. The only scene he was in was when we're introduced to Team 10 and 8 for the first time and Hinata tells Naruto "Kiba-kun didn't mean it that way" and Kiba gives her a side look.

He wasn't there when Hinata struggled to offer Naruto med cream, when Naruto's encouragement give her the strength to fight Neji, when she gave Naruto the speech about being a proud failure.

In Shippuden when we meet Team 8 again he even asked her why she keeps fainting every time she sees Naruto. It isn't up until the "It's In Your Eyes" that Kiba witnesses something between Hinata and Naruto. But what conclusion does he go for? That it must be Naruto who may like Hinata.

Teardrop wrote:

I didn't say he hasn't teased Hinata for "something", just that he hasn't teased her for her feelings for Naruto.

Kiba says "Hinata already went out of concern for him! But when she saw him all bandaged up, she almost fainted... that embarrassed her so much that she didn't dare show her face! Hahaha!".

To the bolded: So, Kiba knew Hinata was somehow interested with Naruto

In Shippuden when we meet Team 8 again he even asked her why she keeps fainting every time she sees Naruto. It isn't up until the "It's In Your Eyes" that Kiba witnesses something between Hinata and Naruto. But what conclusion does he go for? That it must be Naruto who may like Hinata.

Do you then assume that Kiba did not realize that his teammate was in love with Naruto or that her feelings for the latter were more than "being concerned for him" when she tried to save Naruto from Pein?

Irielo wrote:

Teardrop wrote:

I didn't say he hasn't teased Hinata for "something", just that he hasn't teased her for her feelings for Naruto.

Kiba says "Hinata already went out of concern for him! But when she saw him all bandaged up, she almost fainted... that embarrassed her so much that she didn't dare show her face! Hahaha!".

To the bolded: So, Kiba knew Hinata was somehow interested with Naruto

In Shippuden when we meet Team 8 again he even asked her why she keeps fainting every time she sees Naruto. It isn't up until the "It's In Your Eyes" that Kiba witnesses something between Hinata and Naruto. But what conclusion does he go for? That it must be Naruto who may like Hinata.

Do you then assume that Kiba did not realize that his teammate was in love with Naruto or that her feelings for the latter were more than "being concerned for him" when she tried to save Naruto from Pein?

^in bold

I think when Sakura was healing Hinata when Naruto was off rampaging against Pain, i think all in attendence figured out Hinata has strong feelings for Naruto. I know Kiba was there but i think you get that idea.

Irielo wrote:To the bolded: So, Kiba knew Hinata was somehow interested with Naruto

That scene shows he either didn't know or knew, but didn't care. To me, it's the former. Either way, he's more interested in laughing about Hinata's embarrassment than her feelings.

Reintroduction of T8 tells us that Kiba does not know of Hinata's feelings for Naruto ("Why do you always faint whenever you see Naruto!?").

The original point was that Kiba has teased Hinata for her feelings for Naruto, but he never has. So even if you count that as Kiba knowing about Hinata's feelings, he has yet to tease her about them.

Do you then assume that Kiba did not realize that his teammate was in love with Naruto or that her feelings for the latter were more than "being concerned for him" when she tried to save Naruto from Pein?

Kiba's thoughts about Hinata saving naruto from Pain has never been shown, so I can't say anything about that.

I see minor implications that Kiba may be familiar with Hinata's feelings (his side glance at her when she told Naruto that Kiba-kun didn't mean it the way he said it, the "out of concern for him").

But than the manga shows me reason to believe he's still oblivious to her feelings ("Why do you always faint...", "Don't act tough just because Hinata's here!").


I said before that I don't think Kiba ever knew that Hinata loved Naruto and still does not know. I shall take the time to explain my reasons.

• When Kiba brags to Sasuke about him and his team having gotten stronger and that they won't lose, Naruto pipes up "Sasuke might, but I won't". Hinata tells Naruto that "KIba-kun didn't mean it that way". As this is the first time we met Hinata, she either likes Naruto or she's just being polite and avoiding any nasty comments that may happen. Kiba's side glance raises the question of whether he's suspicious that his team mate likes Naruto, knows her to be typical gentle Hinata or is simple just looking because she happened to speak.
  
• When Hinata gave Naruto her speech about him being a proud failure and Naruto thanks her, Kiba arrives. His "Huh? What's this?" had many believe that Kiba witnessed their talk and from there concluded that something was up. But how can he? He didn't actually listen to their conversation. He arrived after the speech, after Naruto thanked her and after Naruto was leaving the scene. When Kiba does enter, the first thing he does is tell Hinata of Shino's upcoming match (Naruto's retreating back can be seen). When he notices Hinata staring silently in the distance (where Naruto is leaving) he does wonder what's going on, but makes no attempt to see what she's so focused on.
  
• When Kiba says that Hinata visited Naruto out of concern. OK, so maybe he figured it out. He either didn't or he doesn't care, as he was more keen on getting a laugh out of her embarrassment.
  
• "Why do you always faint every time you see Naruto!?" Perhaps his frustration is because he wants Hinata to actually talk to Naruto. That he's trying to give her a harsh push Naruto's way and at the same time hint to Naruto. However, considering that Kiba is supposedly trying to help Hinata, he doesn't make any further attempts. So from that scene, I can only conclude that he still did not know of Hinata's feelings.
  
• Hinata saving Pain: The biggest Hinata>Naruto moment. If Kiba was ware of her feelings, I would think he's have a thought or say in the matter. Maybe "I knew it,"? Or "So, Hinata likes Naruto".
  
• "It's in your eyes". Kiba witnesses as Hinata say she knows it's the real Naruto because she can "see it in his eyes". Naruto tells her that she's strong, because it's "in her eyes". A number of things can be considered from this interaction such as that Hinata has watched Naruto long enough to pick up when it's really him (and not a fake) and that Naruto can tell when Hinata is mentally beating herself up. But what conclusion does Kiba go for? "Naruto, don't act tough just because Hinata is here!"
  
• The fact that Kiba missed the first big scene that really suggested Hinata's feelings for Naruto (med cream) and the one scene that really drilled into the possibility (her fight with Neji). Kurenai, Neji and Shino (people that closely know her) were there, but Kiba is the only one to miss out.
  

Teardrop wrote:Kiba's thoughts about Hinata saving naruto from Pain has never been shown, so I can't say anything about that.

I see minor implications that Kiba may be familiar with Hinata's feelings (his side glance at her when she told Naruto that Kiba-kun didn't mean it the way he said it, the "out of concern for him").

But than the manga shows me reason to believe he's still oblivious to her feelings ("Why do you always faint...", "Don't act tough just because Hinata's here!").

[*]Hinata saving Pain: The biggest Hinata>Naruto moment. If Kiba was ware of her feelings, I would think he's have a thought or say in the matter. Maybe "I knew it,"? Or "So, Hinata likes Naruto".

[*]

Should everything be shown to make it believable? The confession was there so that Naruto could realize that Hinata loved him and Hinata's action talked for itself btw. Except Sasuke, the rest of the K11 knows what happened this day and how Hinata tried to save Naruto and like I wrote before, her action talked for itself. I don't think it was necessary for Kishimoto to make all of them say something about it. I would even go as far as to state that even Choji or Ten Ten have realized that. One thing I appreciate is that not everything has to be necessarily shown to be understood. That's my POV though.

The characters who were chosen to talk about it were Neji and Sakura, Neji asking why Hinata did something like that and Sakura giving the answer (without talking directly to Neji) that Hinata loves Naruto.
When Kiba asked Hinata why does she always faint when she sees Naruto, that happened before the confession. We are reading a story where things evolve as the characters themselves. According to you, Kiba is just too blind to realize that someone he knows very well, his teammate and friend is in love with his comrade Naruto...

[*]"It's in your eyes". Kiba witnesses as Hinata say she knows it's the real Naruto because she can "see it in his eyes". Naruto tells her that she's strong, because it's "in her eyes". A number of things can be considered from this interaction such as that Hinata has watched Naruto long enough to pick up when it's really him (and not a fake) and that Naruto can tell when Hinata is mentally beating herself up. But what conclusion does Kiba go for? "Naruto, don't act tough just because Hinata is here!"

[*]

Kiba witnessed the mutual acknowledgement during the "It's all in your eyes". He realized how things evolved or is seeing NaruHina in a new perspective. He was there during Sakura's fakefession and thus could see the difference. Kiba teasing Naruto afterwards "not to act strong..." just fits his character.

[*]The fact that Kiba missed the first big scene that really suggested Hinata's feelings for Naruto (med cream) and the one scene that really drilled into the possibility (her fight with Neji). Kurenai, Neji and Shino (people that closely know her) were there, but Kiba is the only one to miss out.

[*]

That's why he had to ask Hinata why she was fainting when Naruto was around or something along the lines because unlike Kurenai, he did not see all these details but that's something which happened long time ago. Like I wrote above, the story evolves and the characters develop... Still if you want to think that Kiba is not aware of Hinata's feelings for Naruto, it's up to you.

Irielo wrote:Should everything be shown to make it believable? The confession was there so that Naruto could realize that Hinata loved him and Hinata's action talked for itself btw. Except Sasuke, the rest of the K11 knows what happened this day and how Hinata tried to save Naruto and like I wrote before, her action talked for itself. I don't think it was necessary for Kishimoto to make all of them say something about it. I would even go as far as to state that even Choji or Ten Ten have realized that. One thing I appreciate is that not everything has to be necessarily shown to be understood. That's my POV though.

You asked me if "or that her feelings for the latter were more than "being concerned for him" when she tried to save Naruto from Pein", I said that Kiba had nothing to say on the matter. I never said it was necessary to show everything. If someone is stating that Kiba thinks the meaning of Hinata saving Naruto is more than just being concerned for him than, yes, it is necessary to show something that backups that statement.

The characters who were chosen to talk about it were Neji and Sakura, Neji asking why Hinata did something like that and Sakura giving the answer (without talking directly to Neji) that Hinata loves Naruto.
When Kiba asked Hinata why does she always faint when she sees Naruto, that happened before the confession. We are reading a story where things evolve as the characters themselves. According to you, Kiba is just too blind to realize that someone he knows very well, his teammate and friend is in love with his comrade Naruto...

As you said, we're reading a story where things evolve. Kiba asking Hinata why she faints tells readers at that point how distant Hinata's relationship with Naruto was. Later when he teases Naruto about acting tough in front of Hinata it tells us how close Naruto and Hinata have gotten. But does that mean Kiba picked up on certain details, such as Hinata's feelings? No, it doesn't.

Maybe Kiba is blind. Because the argument that he knows is not because he's actually shown to know without a doubt, but because they're team mates and he has to know. Kiba has looked at Hinata when she spoken to Naruto, said that she has visited him out of concern and has asked her why she keeps fainting in his presence. We're supposed to assume he knows of her feelings despite not mentioning it or thinking of it.

Kiba, Sakura, and Neji have seen Hinata say or do something in regards to Naruto. Kiba wants to know why she kept fainting, has said and thought nothing about risking her life to save Naruto and has only teased Naruto on the matter. Neji wondered why she'd risked her life and Sakura says it's because Hinata's loves Naruto. Out of those three who see Hinata>Naruto, only Sakura concludes "she loves him". Even though Kiba is her comrade and Neji her cousin, a girl who doesn't know her that well picks up on it.

Kiba witnessed the mutual acknowledgement during the "It's all in your eyes". He realized how things evolved or is seeing NaruHina in a new perspective. He was there during Sakura's fakefession and thus could see the difference. Kiba teasing Naruto afterwards "not to act strong..." just fits his character.

It's a list of "I don't think Kiba ever knew that Hinata loved Naruto and still does not know". It's not a list of fact, it's a list of opinion. You saw that scene and think he's realised how things evolved or is seeing NaruHina in a new perspective. I think he's come with the idea that it's Naruto>Hinata. Either that or it's entire purpose is to thrown NaruHina fans a bone and Kiba is, as you said, just being Kiba. My reason is for his direct teasing to one party but nothing said to the other. Because how I see it, he's not seeing NaruHina evolve or in a new perspective, he's seeing Naruto's interactions with Hinata evolve and in a new perspective. NARUHINA, not NARUhina..

Kiba was there during Sakura's fakefession. But what did he say or do that meant he could see the difference? Nothing. he didn't say anything, he didn't do anything. He just frowned and asked Sakura if they should just tell Naruto the truth. He had no opinion to Sakura's false claims and just wanted her to quit beating around the bush.

As much as Kiba teasing Naruto is part of his character, it is a list of my reasons as to why I think Kiba was clueless to Hinata's feelings (and still is). If teasing Naruto just fits his character than it adds to supporting my belief.

That's why he had to ask Hinata why she was fainting when Naruto was around or something along the lines because unlike Kurenai, he did not see all these details but that's something which happened long time ago. Like I wrote above, the story evolves and the characters develop... Still if you want to think that Kiba is not aware of Hinata's feelings for Naruto, it's up to you.

You have yet to give me any evidence that Kiba, without a doubt, knew or now knows of Hinata's feelings. "They're team mates", "according to you, Kiba is just too blind", "not everyone has to speak of it", "we are reading a story where things evolve" is not actually evidence. It's just speculation (and downplayng my argument by insulting me). Yes, the story evolves and the characters develop. From my POV NaruHina has evolved, Kiba has... turned into Mr. Comment on Something For the Sake of the Fandom.

When I stated that I believe Kiba didn't know, I provided actual plausible reasons for my belief. The fact that Kiba has missed two big scenes in part one, had to ask Hinata for why she keeps fainting (and didn't get an answer) and has yet to even comment on Hinata's feelings, I don't think my reasoning is farfetched.

If it's up to me, why are you arguing? It's obvious you disagree with my points, but "politely" telling me I'm entitled to my opinion, basically giving me the "middle finger", does not counter my points.

Ok I just want to point this out:

1. No offense, but if Kishi does this correctly, he'll end the series off with the main pairings made clear and nothing else. Sorry, but everyone else's fate, as cute as it may be, is not important. The characters are of course, but the pairings the supporting characters may or may not have is not.

2. Kiba has shown no interest in Hinata. That much is clear. Even if he liked Hinata, he'd be in the NaruSaku boat. Naruto liking Sakura, but obviously never going to get her because she loves someone else.

Now that that is settled, can we lock this thread already? It's getting quite intense in here.

Teardrop wrote:When I stated that I believe Kiba didn't know, I provided actual plausible reasons for my belief. The fact that Kiba has missed two big scenes in part one, had to ask Hinata for why she keeps fainting (and didn't get an answer) and has yet to even comment on Hinata's feelings, I don't think my reasoning is farfetched.

If it's up to me, why are you arguing? It's obvious you disagree with my points, but "politely" telling me I'm entitled to my opinion, basically giving me the "middle finger", does not counter my points.

Yes you did provide plausible reason based on the fact that Kiba did not know in part 1. Even in the beginning of Part 2 (correct me if I'm wrong) he asked why Hinata had to faint etc.? Naruto did not know about Hinata's feelings neither. Naruto learned about them (Hinata's feelings) when she confessed and like I wrote above, her action talked for itself. That's maybe where we should agree to disagree that all the K11 except Sasuke has realized that Hinata loves Naruto because her action talked for itself this day.

To me, it's not necessary that Kiba says or thinks something about it. Like I wrote in other threads, when something is openly expressed when it comes to romantic love in this manga, most of the times, it comes from females characters. That's why I'm not surprised that Sakura is the one who thought that Hinata was in love with Naruto.
Not showing Kiba's thoughts regarding Hinata's action this day does not mean that he did not give a thought about it. What kind of teammate Kiba would be not to think about Hinata nearly dying to rescue Naruto? An indifferent dude?

Moreover, I disagree with you on the same example you take to assume that Kiba does not know about Hinata's feelings. He might have not understood why Hinata reacted this way (fainting) before but I do think that he is not such an idiot nor so blind to make the connexion between Hinata fainting and her facing such a deadly enemy, going against the instructions not to interfere, to realize that she is in love with Naruto. The question is: was it absolutely relevant to show Kiba's thoughts about Hinata's intervention? or Were Neji and Sakura's reactions not enough to show that Hinata surprised all of them without necessarily going into the details of showing the reaction of each of them (Kiba, TenTen, Choji...)?

Although I agree that he might have noticed Naruto's feelings during the "It's all in your eyes", I don't find it logical that he would have been aware of Naruto's feelings before of being aware of Hinata's ones. He witnessed a NaruHina moment and understood that something was happening between those two, not only Naruto's side. Him teasing Naruto afterwards is a quite typical boyish attitude. He expressed Naruto's feelings by teasing him like Sakura thought about Hinata's love for Naruto but expressed it in a different style.

A girl (Sakura) was "used" to express the feelings of a female comrade (Hinata) and a boy (Kiba) was "used" to express the feelings of a male comrade (Naruto). The only difference lies in the way Sakura, as a girl, expressed it and Kiba, as a boy did it.


If you think that I am insulting you or showing you the middle finger, then I'm very sorry about it. Maybe it's my way of writing which does not suit you... Anyway, regarding this topic, I think we both read and understand things differently.

MichaelInsanity wrote:Ok I just want to point this out:

1. No offense, but if Kishi does this correctly, he'll end the series off with the main pairings made clear and nothing else. Sorry, but everyone else's fate, as cute as it may be, is not important. The characters are of course, but the pairings the supporting characters may or may not have is not.

2. Kiba has shown no interest in Hinata. That much is clear. Even if he liked Hinata, he'd be in the NaruSaku boat. Naruto liking Sakura, but obviously never going to get her because she loves someone else.

Now that that is settled, can we lock this thread already? It's getting quite intense in here.

The discussion is good. Why locking this thread? There are no insults, nor bashing etc.

Irielo wrote:Yes you did provide plausible reason based on the fact that Kiba did not know in part 1. Even in the beginning of Part 2 (correct me if I'm wrong) he asked why Hinata had to faint etc.? Naruto did not know about Hinata's feelings neither. Naruto learned about them (Hinata's feelings) when she confessed and like I wrote above, her action talked for itself. That's maybe where we should agree to disagree that all the K11 except Sasuke has realized that Hinata loves Naruto because her action talked for itself this day.

I have no objections to considering the idea that he is now aware, but due to lack of thought and comment on the issue, can not agree that he is defiantly aware.

To me, it's not necessary that Kiba says or thinks something about it. Like I wrote in other threads, when something is openly expressed when it comes to romantic love in this manga, most of the times, it comes from females characters. That's why I'm not surprised that Sakura is the one who thought that Hinata was in love with Naruto.
Not showing Kiba's thoughts regarding Hinata's action this day does not mean that he did not give a thought about it. What kind of teammate Kiba would be not to think about Hinata nearly dying to rescue Naruto? An indifferent dude?

To me it is necessary. Especially when people use it to backup their ship. The idea that Kiba was always aware of Hinata's feelings is made mostly by KibaHina shippers in heir believe that Kiba is both jealous and knows Hinata better than Naruto, that he can also relate to her when it comes to unrequited love.
I never said it did. Understand that I am interpreting scenes as how I see them. Just because I don't say "in my opinion", does not mean I believe my words as factual. But to answer your (possibly rhetorical) question, you're assuming Kiba has thought of the issue because he's her teammate and not because Kiba would be the type to muse about it. Shino is Hinata's team mate and is well-know for being an "indifferent dude". He cares a lot about his teammates, yet no one applies the whole "he knows as his her teammate" reasoning to him.

Moreover, I disagree with you on the same example you take to assume that Kiba does not know about Hinata's feelings. He might have not understood why Hinata reacted this way (fainting) before but I do think that he is not such an idiot nor so blind to make the connexion between Hinata fainting and her facing such a deadly enemy, going against the instructions not to interfere, to realize that she is in love with Naruto. The question is: was it absolutely relevant to show Kiba's thoughts about Hinata's intervention? or Were Neji and Sakura's reactions not enough to show that Hinata surprised all of them without necessarily going into the details of showing the reaction of each of them (Kiba, TenTen, Choji...)?

You're the one assuming things. I at least have plausible reasoning to think Kiba is unaware of it. You're only reasoning is "they're team mates" and accusing me of thinking Kiba must be too blind/idiotic. The guy couldn't even figure it out from Hinata fainting and goes to tease Naruto about "being tough in front of Hinata".
Answer: Yes, it's necessary. Sakura and Neji are not everyone else. They do not speak for everyone else. And just like it isn't necessary to show their thoughts or reactions, it isn't necessary to argue that they do know. You wouldn't even need a reaction from everyone anyway. I'd expect more reaction from Kiba and Shino than I would Choji or Tenten.

Although I agree that he might have noticed Naruto's feelings during the "It's all in your eyes", I don't find it logical that he would have been aware of Naruto's feelings before of being aware of Hinata's ones. He witnessed a NaruHina moment and understood that something was happening between those two, not only Naruto's side. Him teasing Naruto afterwards is a quite typical boyish attitude. He expressed Naruto's feelings by teasing him like Sakura thought about Hinata's love for Naruto but expressed it in a different style.

I already said that he understood something happening and that it seemed the conclusion he came up with was Naruto>Hinata. I never said Kiba was without a doubt unaware, just that I can not be certain. Maybe you want to stick with "it was made obvious". but I don't. Kiba's never been shown to have an understanding when it comes to romantic implications. Sakura knowing Hinata being in love with Naruto was understandable, Kiba isn't. As harsh as it is for me to say this, yes Kiba can be too blind and idiotic to consider the plausibility.
If it's "typical boyish attitude" then that can suggest that he only assumes the idea of Naru>Hina/Hina>Naru, rather than knows of it. In the idea that guy praises girl as he smiles at her and his male friend teases him for it.

If you think that I am insulting you or showing you the middle finger, then I'm very sorry about it. Maybe it's my way of writing which does not suit you... Anyway, regarding this topic, I think we both read and understand things differently.

If that's the case, than I too apologise. "If you want to think" has the same effect on others as "it's just your opinion" and if it's not in someone's intention to be insult or disrespectful it's advisable not to say it.
Underlined: I think so, too.

^ Thanks for this interesting answer. Don't get me wrong, thinking that Kiba knows Hinata's feelings has nothing to do with Kiba's so called "jealousy".
But to make things simple, this example about Kiba asking Hinata why she has to faint when she sees Naruto is precisely why I think that by now he knows about her feelings.

If he had never noticed that and had never asked Hinata, then I would have thought that he does not give it any importance and I would also think that he might not know about Hinata's feelings for Naruto. The fact that he asked that question showed that he'd already noticed how his teammate was behaving in a given situation: when Naruto is around.

I respect your opinion when you tell me that it would have been important to show Kiba and Shino's reactions after Hinata's intervention against Pein. To me, that was not necessary because, again, her action talked for itself. Putting her life on the line for someone else in such a situation. I do think that Kiba knows what is the value of self-sacrifice.

And Hinata was ready to die for Naruto. If Kiba did not make this connexion between Hinata's intervention to save Naruto and the way she used to faint when Naruto was around, then Kiba might be really an idiot (no intention of bashing here) or maybe he ignores the fact that Hinata tried to protect Naruto but him ignoring that would be far-fetched imo.