Re: Is Obito Justified in his actions

by **NekoKimio** Sun Jul 21, 2013 12:16 pm

No, I do not think Obito is justified in his actions. I know he has had gone through some tough things, but to be honest, even with the manipulation this is going too far. He's selfish and blind to see that what he's doing is destructive. And now that he's the tentails jinchurikki? NOPE. NO. No redemption for him, at all. Even before he pulled the tentails crap, he was one of the characters I just did not want to see being redeemed because it's just... UGH.

by **Graeystone** Tue Jul 30, 2013 1:45 am

He attached an explosive tag to a newborn baby. . .if that isn't a '@$## you and die!' moment for a character then I don't know what is.

What pisses me off though. . .this is Shounen. . .Obito could eat babies and probably be redeemed at the end of the story!

by **uzzyman95** Sat Aug 10, 2013 4:09 pm

Bubbles wrote:I don't think Obito is at all justified. Okay, Rin died. That sucks, but friends die, and you're supposed to grieve and then move on, remembering them and honoring their memory.

Obito, you looked like you have lived a pretty damn good life up until then, so there is no Naruto comparison aside from what we got from the manga really. If Naruto had taken Obito's path before he made his bonds, it would at least be more justified because Naruto was hated by his entire village. He didn't have bonds and people who cared about him that were living.

He had to act out to get attention, and even that of course was negative. Obito didn't have that. He had squabbles with his hardened teammate Kakashi, but Rin and Minato were clearly nice to him, and he had a family and comrades, So what gives? Rin died.

Okay that sucks ass Obito, and you 'loved' her, but what about your mentor? your friend? Your dream? Don't you love your own family? My problem is, why was Rin the turning point? Why was she more important to him than say his own family? We didn't even get to see what Rin really was to him.

He liked her and she was nice, but that's it. The reason I don't feel sympathy, nor do I feel he is justified in any way is because he is psycho, doesn't have one bit of a good reason for doing what he's doing and Kishi didn't elaborate on why Rin was even his turning point when he still had plenty of reason to go back to the village and move on.

Not to mention he [Obito] shits all over Rin and her decision by doing this, yet claims to care about her. Please. If you really cared that much about Rin, you'd respect her decision to die by the one she loved hand and for the village she wished to protect. It isn't your choice who lives and dies and when, and everyone dies someday, it happens. Especially in your profession.

Rin died honorably, a true shinobi. I think you are scum Obito. You are the worst of scum. You killed your own sensei and his wife, and tried to kill their newborn son. You are responsible for the majority of tragedies in everyone's lives and you try and justify it with your little fairytale land you've decided to force others into. Or rather, a bunch of true fakes.

No, not justified at all. I don't see him getting redeemed either. Perhaps a bit mentally, but I don't see him surviving this war. Nor do I want him to.

*claps loudly* This is the best excerpt I have read regarding Obito. I have nothing to add. I salute you

by **GreatKungLao** Mon Aug 12, 2013 9:49 pm

Irielo wrote:
Spoiler:

And Nagato was ready to kill thousands of people every time using bijuu bombs, when fear would stop working to make peace. Nagato attacked Jiraiya's village, killed his friends and was bashing his and Naruto's sensei (and his dreams) right in front of Naruto himself. Nagato wasn't satisfied with Jiraiya's death, it was even worse - he didn't felt anything for the person that did so much for him, Konan and Yahiko back then.

Yes, Obito was trying to kill new born Naruto, but how much people and kids could have died after massive Shinra Tensei? Nagato wasn't even thinking about that - it's wasn't matter for him, who is there to kill: a mature one or a kid, man or woman.

Both Nagato and Obito have killed a huge amount of people for their goals. Still Obito gots all the hate and doesn't deserve to be redeemed...

by **Irielo** Mon Aug 12, 2013 10:07 pm

As long as Obito remains the way he is, how does he expect to be redeemed? At least, Nagato listened to Naruto's answer and brought back the people of Konoha who he killed. He opened his mind and his heart because Naruto succeeded in convincing him.

Will Obito change his mind? Only the future will say and sorry stop thinking that everybody hates Obito... He is not my least favorite or most hated character but I admit I lost the respect I had for him when I learned why he made all this mess.

I don't want to repeat myself, so I use this spoiler I wrote in another thread about the difference between Nagato and Obito.

Spoiler:

by **GreatKungLao** Mon Aug 12, 2013 10:41 pm

I found it very interesting to read.

by **Irielo** Sun Aug 18, 2013 9:48 pm

Attacking a woman when she has just given birth after having killed an elder woman (Biwako Sarutobi), using a baby in order to blackmail someone and putting an explosive on the same baby... These are acts of cowardice.

Instead of behaving like a man and dealing with the ones against whom he had a grudge, Kakashi and Minato, Obito cowardly attacked the weaker ones.

I hope Minato will give him a good correction helped by his son that will teach how a man should behave. Bringing a 13-14 year old teenager as Edo Tensei just to redeem a grown up man... So only Edo Tenseis can do the job and in this case a young teenager who will have to come in the middle of a battlefield (the poor, I can imagine her confusion) to try to reason an over 30 man?

Well... Is Obito Justified in his actions - Page 3 2060583745

Is Obito Justified in his actions - Page 3 2060583745

by **Batokusanagi** Sun Aug 18, 2013 10:30 pm

Justified? Of course not. Not like anything would justify all the crap Obit's done, but "it's because you let Rin die" is the single worst excuse I've seen for a villain in shonen... no wait, in fiction.

by **Mustang** Mon Aug 19, 2013 12:07 am

Batokusanagi wrote:Justified? Of course not. Not like anything would justify all the crap Obit's done, but "it's because you let Rin die" is the single worst excuse I've seen for a villain in shonen... no wait, in fiction.

Whao chill, I started this thread let people express their objective point of views on whether Obito was justified or not.

It was more than just Rin that made him the way he is, remember Madara had a part to play in it all, it wasn't just Rin that caused him to be the way he was, there was a chance that the Uchiha clan could have done something similar to Obito as well, so there could have been other reasons as to why Obito is doing what he is doing.

by **GreatKungLao** Mon Aug 19, 2013 12:12 am

Even if it just "Because you let Rin die", this reason is MUCH MORE decent, than "I'm doing it because I want to become a God", "I'm doing it because I want to rule the world", "I need money!", "Because I'm a stupid psycho!", etc. Watching how a villain just want to see his love once again with creating a perfect world is very interesting. Reality took from Obito Rin, his dreams and all his ideals were crushed by Madara and brutality of reality. Lets say that Obito is a dark side of Naruto, how he could become under certain circumstances.

Is Obito Justified in his actions - Page 3 Tumblr_mjwcz0CWPY1r09xpso1_500

Is Obito Justified in his actions - Page 3 Tumblr_mjwcz0CWPY1r09xpso1_500

Is Obito Justified in his actions - Page 3 The_same_smile__the_same_dream_by_chokomakarony23-d5fjv41

by **Aelita** Mon Aug 19, 2013 12:48 am

^Actually I see it the other way. I could understand why someone who was crazy with power-lust would kill and manipulate people.
Obito just feels scorned from a lost of a loved one. Many people lose their loved ones at one point, but usually we don't go crazy about it--albeit Obito's witnessing of Rin's death and the bloody aftermath was pretty traumatic. And like Senpai mentioned earlier, Madara probably had something to do with it.

@51-mustang, I do believe Obito had a pretty decent relationship with his clan pre-Rin's death. He was said to be very respectful towards the elderly and was pretty proud of being an Uchiha (that one panel of him pointing at the Uchiha crest on his back). His contribution to the Uchiha massacre was because it benefited him getting closer to his moons eye plan. And he was able to nullify his conscious doing it because to him, he could always recreate his clan in his alternate reality and make it so they had never died.

I just wish Obito would elaborate on what exactly did he realize was wrong with the world and the Shinobi system after Rin's death. Instead of just bringing up Rin and how the world is rotten (geez I get already lol, Obito really needs some new dialogue)

Feeling like the deaths of a few is a necessary evil in order to achieve a perfect world where there is no death pain and war is decent motivator for a villain. I just wish Obito would stop focusing on Rin so much.

by **Irielo** Mon Aug 19, 2013 12:53 am

That amazes me when some try to justify Obito's actions by hiding behind other characters like Nagato or even try to use his similarities with Naruto to create so called parallels based on what if.

In this case, there are no differences with NS when it tries to defend its pairing. I appreciate 51-mustang's comment which is based solely on Obito's experience and Madara's manipulation. I would like to know how much Madara fooled Obito: 100%, 75%, 50%, 25%. Was Obito completely under Madara's control?

by **GreatKungLao** Mon Aug 19, 2013 1:01 am

Irielo wrote:That amazes me when some try to justify Obito's actions by hiding behind other characters like Nagato or even try to use his similarities with Naruto to create so called parallels based on what if.

We are not creating parallels. It was stated by Kakashi himself, that Obito was a lot like Naruto and Naruto is a lot like old Obito. And Obito too was talking a lot, how Naruto reminds of his past self, but eventually everyone would become how he is at the moment. There is no similarities with what NS is doing with parallels. Parallels and similarities between Naruto and Obito were actually stated in the manga by a few characters.

by **Irielo** Mon Aug 19, 2013 1:08 am

GreatKungLao wrote:
Irielo wrote:That amazes me when some try to justify Obito's actions by hiding behind other characters like Nagato or even try to use his similarities with Naruto to create so called parallels based on what if.
We are not creating parallels. It was stated by Kakashi himself, that Obito was a lot like Naruto and Naruto is a lot like old Obito. And Obito too was talking a lot, how Naruto reminds of his past self, but eventually everyone would become how he is at the moment. There is no similarities with what NS is doing with parallels. Parallels and similarities between Naruto and Obito were actually stated in the manga by a few characters.

In case you did not notice, I did not deny the similarities between those two but how these similarities are used to justify Obito's actions like NS uses Kushina and Sakura's similarities to justify its pairing. If Obito had to be redeemed, ok. But only on a personal basis. The old Obito was a hero and the new one has screwed it up.

by **GreatKungLao** Mon Aug 19, 2013 1:27 am

Irielo wrote:
GreatKungLao wrote:
Irielo wrote:That amazes me when some try to justify Obito's actions by hiding behind other characters like Nagato or even try to use his similarities with Naruto to create so called parallels based on what if.
We are not creating parallels. It was stated by Kakashi himself, that Obito was a lot like Naruto and Naruto is a lot like old Obito. And Obito too was talking a lot, how Naruto reminds of his past self, but eventually everyone would become how he is at the moment. There is no similarities with what NS is doing with parallels. Parallels and similarities between Naruto and Obito were actually stated in the manga by a few characters.
In case you did not notice, I did not deny the similarities between those two but how these similarities are used to justify Obito's actions like NS uses Kushina and Sakura's similarities to justify its pairing. If Obito had to be redeemed, ok. But only on a personal basis. The old Obito was a hero and the new one has screwed it up.

Obito's actions are definitely not justified.

I would say even more - no matter what reasons you have, some actions are always will be bad and not justified. If Kakashi or Sakura would kill Sasuke back in the past, this action wouldn't be justified. If Naruto would kill Nagato - this action wouldn't be justified. If Sarutobi would kill Orochimaru it wouldn't be justified. And so on.

The reason is very simple - killing is in general not a justified action, no matter what reasons you are using for to do so, killing is an evil deed, which didn't make anyone look better. That's why I liked that Zabuza and Nagato were defeated by Naruto with persuasive words and I hope, that he will defeat Obito in the same way, proving that he don't need to use not justified actions to save the world, that using only good side could be enough to save everything.

by **Aelita** Mon Aug 19, 2013 1:40 am

You know what would probably made Obito's back story stronger?

If at one point during the 3rd shinobi war, Rin revealed to Obito hopes for a future peaceful world without war (in the aftermath of a death of one of her loved ones like a sibling or something). Also giving Rin some character development.

And after Rin's death and Madara told Obito about the moons eye plan, Obito would twist and misinterpret Rin's words and adopt her wish and Madara's will. Then there would be an element of honor (albeit false) as well as Obito's selfish desire to be with Rin again. Then more elaboration on what exactly Obito now finds so rotten about the world that made him believe that his radical ideas were the only thing that could change it. He would think and voice that he and his ideas were benevolent, that he was doing the greater good for mankind. While Rin (well more like his idea of Rin) would still be his motivator, she would be more like the picture of a wife/girlfriend a solider looks at before going into battle.

His heart would darken over time and he would feel like the deaths of a few who stood in his way were a necessary evil to accomplish a perfect world where the majority of mankind would benefit, an would accomplish what he thought was Rin's wish. He would further nullify his conscious by rationalizing that he could always recreate who he killed in his alternate reality, making nothing he did in this reality really matter. But the hypocrisy of believing you're being benevolent while killing innocent people would quickly cause him to become mentally disturbed and would drive him to be the sociopath that he is today. And Obito's twisted sense of achieving peace would further parallel him to Naruto.

If Obito focused more on "I'm doing the greater good of mankind by saving us all from this rotten world! I am the one to usher in peace!" than "Because you let Rin die!" I think Obito's motivation would have come off stronger.

by **Strawberry** Mon Aug 19, 2013 3:20 am

GreatKungLao wrote:Even if it just "Because you let Rin die", this reason is MUCH MORE decent, than "I'm doing it because I want to become a God", "I'm doing it because I want to rule the world", "I need money!", "Because I'm a stupid psycho!", etc. Watching how a villain just want to see his love once again with creating a perfect world is very interesting. Reality took from Obito Rin, his dreams and all his ideals were crushed by Madara and brutality of reality. Lets say that Obito is a dark side of Naruto, how he could become under certain circumstances.

Spoiler:

At bolded, I know you're not talking about Nagato, Madara and Orochimaru, right? Because if you are, you are looking at it the most simplistic way, and leaving out the story behind their actions.

Nagato didn't want to become god for the hell of it. He suffered too much, the guy lost everything he had, and as an orphan kid he had to struggle day by day to survive. At an early age he realized how all the battles and wars just created an endless cycle of hatred. People call revenge justice, and in their quest for justice it just brings more revenge and hatred. He wanted to stop all of that. In a twisted way, but all he wanted was to stop it by fear. People would be so afraid of the weapon he wanted to create, that they would stop going to war against each other, and momentarily peace would be achieved. That was his true goal, and his horrible past made him want that goal.

Madara also lost everything he had. When he deciphered the Uchiha tablet, he discovered the key to achieving true peace and happiness. By the opposing forces, in this case the Senju and Uchiha, working together and cooperating with each other. But the way things were going, the way he wasn't trusted and was looked down upon, the exact opposite would happen. Which is why he decided to leave the village, and find his own way to peace. Which is when he came to the conclusion that he needed Hashirama's power within himself. The only way he could think the two opposing forces could work together with each other was by him having both powers. His true goal was peace, not world domination for the hell of it.

And Orochimaru, well, a few months ago I would've agreed with you. But Sasuke's comment questioning Orochimaru's true motives, not believing it was all on a whim, and Orochimaru's ambiguous answer makes me think there might be something else going on in that twisted head of his.

Let's be honest, Obito didn't lose anything to reality. He only lost Rin. Then he decided to go back to Madara, instead of returning to his own dreams. That was his mistake. And to me, personally, after having villains with actual goals and tragic pasts, Obito's just pales in comparison.

by **GreatKungLao** Mon Aug 19, 2013 3:23 am

Strawberry, no, I wasn't talking about those three. Madara is definitely don't want to rule the world, there is something different. Nagato didn't wanted to be a God and Orochimaru just wanted to learn every possible jutsu using any means necessary. It was a list of the most generic villain's reasons that I tired from.

by **Strawberry** Mon Aug 19, 2013 3:28 am

^ Oh, understood. I just thought comparing Obito to the other villains within the same story was more viable.

by **GreatKungLao** Mon Aug 19, 2013 3:36 am

Strawberry wrote:^ Oh, understood. I just thought comparing Obito to the other villains within the same story was more viable.

Comparing to other villains from Naruto Obito's reasons are not the best, here I agree, but I still find it much more interesting, than what other stories can give. Villains in Naruto are all awesome for me, they are not repetative and each of them is unique in his way.

I'm protecting Obito mostly because after Kakashi Gaiden he became one of my most favorite characters and I'm not gonna give up on that this boy could be brought back.

by **Strawberry** Mon Aug 19, 2013 3:42 am

^ Yeah, I can understand that. What you find interesting is subjective, and your favorite characters are personal taste. Nothing I can or will say about that.

I, personally, criticize Obito so much, because as the masked man he was my favorite villain and I had really HIGH expectations for him. What you find interesting about Obito, for me it's a let down. That's just a difference in opinions.

by **Haru Glory** Tue Aug 20, 2013 3:33 am

Obito's actions aren't justified. But I think that the cause of his change is downplayed a bit too much. If this happened as an adult then it would seem ridiculous but Obito was literally a child who was at the brink of death. That alone is traumatizing enough but take into account that he was exposed to Madara's influence for quite some time and he even built up his confidence and joy at the thought of happily reuniting with his comrades just to see the guy who he entrusted his dying wishes to kill the girl he loved and gave his life up for. Madara's words and the trauma from almost dying would obviously weaken him subconsciously but to see his dying wish and loved comrade be killed would be enough to mentally destroy any child. It's also logical that your experiences as a child form what kind of adult you turn into and in fact there are also traits that adults keep even from their days as children, the ambition of fulfilling the Eye of the Moon Plan was that trait he carried with him throughout the years. He already gave up on the world as a child so it makes sense that he would do the worst things knowing that he can make this Dream World where everything is perfect.

by **Irielo** Tue Aug 20, 2013 4:07 am

J Ken wrote:Obito's actions aren't justified. But I think that the cause of his change is downplayed a bit too much. If this happened as an adult then it would seem ridiculous but Obito was literally a child who was at the brink of death. That alone is traumatizing enough but take into account that he was exposed to Madara's influence for quite some time and he even built up his confidence and joy at the thought of happily reuniting with his comrades just to see the guy who he entrusted his dying wishes to kill the girl he loved and gave his life up for. Madara's words and the trauma from almost dying would obviously weaken him subconsciously but to see his dying wish and loved comrade be killed would be enough to mentally destroy any child. It's also logical that your experiences as a child form what kind of adult you turn into and in fact there are also traits that adults keep even from their days as children, the ambition of fulfilling the Eye of the Moon Plan was that trait he carried with him throughout the years. He already gave up on the world as a child so it makes sense that he would do the worst things knowing that he can make this Dream World where everything is perfect.

These are good points. The thing is that this part of the story shows that either Kakashi, Rin or Obito were too young to be sent in a war. It's as if the team 7 of part 1 had to participate in a war when they were only young teenagers.
However, they were all aware of the dangers which they had to face during a war. They knew that every minute was a question of life and death. Obito himself activated for the first time his sharingan when he killed this invisible Shinobi to save Kakashi.
And don't forget, these Shinobis were trained since their childhood in the art of war. So, death was already an aspect which they had to deal with as Shinobi... The only problem is that they were not enough mature as young teenagers, not children, to be sent in a war.

by **Haru Glory** Tue Aug 20, 2013 4:23 am

Irielo wrote:
These are good points. The thing is that this part of the story shows that either Kakashi, Rin or Obito were too young to be sent in a war. It's as if the team 7 of part 1 had to participate in a war when they were only young teenagers.
However, they were all aware of the dangers which they had to face during a war. They knew that every minute was a question of life and death. Obito himself activated for the first time his sharingan when he killed this invisible Shinobi to save Kakashi.
And don't forget, these Shinobis were trained since their childhood in the art of war. So, death was already an aspect which they had to deal with as Shinobi... The only problem is that they were not enough mature as young teenagers, not children, to be sent in a war.

That is true though I think Team Minato in all was at a much higher level then Team 7 was for the entire Part I. So I think Team 7 would have ended up worse if they went to war then since the Shinobi started to get soft in their training as shown how the modern shinobi were getting pummeled by the shinobi of the past.
That is true again but as you said they were not mature enough, training to handle the deaths of comrades is one thing but learning to handle it when it happens is another. Also Obito's insanity also plays into the Uchiha Clan being extremists when it comes to love.

by **Strawberry** Tue Aug 20, 2013 7:22 am

J Ken wrote:Obito's actions aren't justified. But I think that the cause of his change is downplayed a bit too much. If this happened as an adult then it would seem ridiculous but Obito was literally a child who was at the brink of death. That alone is traumatizing enough but take into account that he was exposed to Madara's influence for quite some time and he even built up his confidence and joy at the thought of happily reuniting with his comrades just to see the guy who he entrusted his dying wishes to kill the girl he loved and gave his life up for. Madara's words and the trauma from almost dying would obviously weaken him subconsciously but to see his dying wish and loved comrade be killed would be enough to mentally destroy any child. It's also logical that your experiences as a child form what kind of adult you turn into and in fact there are also traits that adults keep even from their days as children, the ambition of fulfilling the Eye of the Moon Plan was that trait he carried with him throughout the years. He already gave up on the world as a child so it makes sense that he would do the worst things knowing that he can make this Dream World where everything is perfect.

I don't think it's downplayed at all. Not when a lot of the characters in the series have traumatic childhoods as well, and many of them even worse than Obito's. I'll take Sasuke for example.

I like comparing Obito to Sasuke, because there are similarities in their cases. Obito saw his best friend kill his crush, while Sasuke saw his brother kill his parents. I'd say Sasuke had it worse, and he was even younger than Obito was. Yes, Sasuke eventually gave in to Orochimaru, like Obito gave in to Madara, but even Sasuke at least tried to stay in the village and be "normal" like his friends. Obito didn't even try to go back to his family. There's also the fact that when Sasuke found out the truth about Itachi, even though it took him some time, he eventually decided that honoring Itachi's sacrifice was the best he could do. Obito found out the truth about Rin's death long ago, and he still doesn't care about her sacrifice, nor about what she stood up for.

Yes, what Obito went through wasn't easy, but he's victimizing himself way too much, and not even sparing a thought to what Rin would want him to do. It's hard for me to think this is the direction Kishimoto took with his character, when he's shown us he is able to give more depth to other characters.

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