Is Obito Justified in his actions

Alright I think I will beat a few of you to the punch, because let's face it this is quite the hot topic at the moment..

So lets get this shit started shall we, now remember the rules are simple no bashing the crap out of the character/s even if he does deserve it.

now my view on all of this is that there are a few defining factors as to why Obito turned out the way he did and some of them are quite obvious, the first is the loss of his first love Rin, now the thing is that we all know that he loves Rin and the fact that he seems to be living in the past, the Moon's eye plan was so that way he can bring his precious Rin back while leaving the world in a permanent Genjutsu, because of his love for Rin and her death which she allowed he now becomes psychotic in a why murdering innocent people just to achieve his goal which was never his own to begin with.

he warps Sasuke and tells him to attack the Cloud Village so he can start his plan (which was never his own to begin with.)

The Moon's eye Plan was Madara's but he entrusted it to him and warped Obito in very much the same way he did to Sasuke.

So the question is, is he worth saving even if he was a warped little boy, who wanted nothing more than to be loved by a girl who was interested in Kakashi, even if he killed many innocent people like Nagato, Konan and Yahiko, Kisame, who were apart of Akatsuki but were only used in his plans, the people that they killed all so they can fulfil a plan that they might never have lived to be a part of, the Massacre of the Uchiha Clan, and the death of Itachi, Neji and tens of thousands of other Shinobi Soldiers. Naruto's parents all killed because he wanted Kurama's power

(well to go back on this rule) Man Obito is such a spoilt little shit, all because he couldn't get his way with one thing. even if there was a way to save, he has done far too much damage to be allowed to live.

Looks like I need to copy myself again.

ClassyLPS wrote:@Irielo

To be honest Obito kind of gives me the creeps. Like you said, I would kind of understand if they were AT LEAST dating. But at the end of the day, all he lost was a childhood crush. Trying to do what he's doing all just because of her is taking it too far.

Obito is being a lil' too obsessive over it. I'm not trying to bash him.. I just think he's kind of going a little too overboard.

He lost not only Rin. With her he lost everything, actually. He wanted to become Hokage and making it for Rin noticing him was not the last reason for Obito to become Hokage. It's all here:

Spoiler:

And it wasn't a crush. If Hinata and Sakura were able to find their true love at age teen, then why Obito couldn't?

You see, Rin was the reason, why Obito was trying doing his best (remind you of NaruHina, huh?). He saw her kindness to him, while nobody didn't (chapter 599) and eventually he fell in love with her. But knowing, that she has feelings for Kakashi, Obito wanted to prove himself, that he is also worth for Rin, that he can actually return her feelings. So dream of become Hokage probably came thanks to Rin or maybe beforehand, but he definitely wanted to become Hokage, so everyone and especially Rin acknowledged him.

Rin gave Obito a reason to improve, to live. With Rin been lost he lost all that.

Irielo wrote:He should then have asked himself if Rin would have agreed with him now. Why did he not keep his good goals? That would have shown more respect and love to Rin's memory.

I need Naruto here. Naruto was much older, than Obito, when he faced Hinata been almost killed and what he did then? He gave all of himself to Kyuubi and hatred, because he thought, that only this could give him power to kill Pain and he would do this, if it wasn't for Minato.

Now Obito - he saw Rin been killed right in front of him and he holded her dead body right in his hands. And Obito was very young at that moment, so that's why I can easily see, how he came up with such twisted ideas of perfect world - because he was a kid, when he faced the cruelty of reality.

Naruto also almost gave in to the Dark Side, when Sasuke was "killed" by Haku.

Naruto didn't changed like Obito, because there ALWAYS was somebody, to bring Naruto back to his sense. Kyuubi transformation - Minato, Neji's death - Hinata, Kurama fight - Kushina, fight with Evil Naruto in the waterfall - friend of Killer Bee and his story.

When Obito faced his bad days, who was there for him? Uchiha Madara. I hope now you can see, why he became what he is and need to be rescued, not killed.

If Naruto wouldn't save Obito, it could prove all his ideals and principles been bad and Jiraiya's dream impossible to come. His sensei wanted, that EVERYONE will be able to understand each other. So like it or not, Naruto need to talk with Obito.

Naruto said by himself:

Spoiler:

So if he wants to stop this war really like that, he have to understand and save Obito, probably even Madara.

I will repeat one more time - Naruto was ready to become nine-tailed monster for Hinata. He didn't, because there was Minato. Obito became a monster, because there was Madara Uchiha.

You can't blame a person for circumstances he ended up in.

I don't think his actions are justified. However we cannot ignore the circumstances that lead him to these actions and the choices he has made (as you guys clearly mentioned and highlighted), I believe things could have gone a lot differently if he had returned to the village and confronted Kakashi, coming to terms with the reality of her dying (eventually moving on) instead of going off on his own after Madara died and left him with this big idea of bringing her back. He clearly never let Rin go and i think its because shortly after her death he was told he can bring her back as compared to being told that death is an unfortunate part of life and Rin would want him to move on.

In the end i think he should be saved mentally, but physically i can't see him surviving. What would he do after? his whole purpose for existing would be no more, i can't see him renting an apartment in the leaf village and settling down. So like with Pein he could be saved mentally and then die physically or even if he doesn't die, he might just leave and live out the rest of his life wandering (which is more painful if you ask me).

Lickstermik wrote:In the end i think he should be saved mentally, but physically i can't see him surviving. What would he do after? his whole purpose for existing would be no more, i can't see him renting an apartment in the leaf village and settling down. So like with Pein he could be saved mentally and then die physically or even if he doesn't die, he might just leave and live out the rest of his life wandering (which is more painful if you ask me).

That's what I like to see as well. Let Obito be saved mentally, but them let him die with a noble death - maybe sacrificng himself for Kakashi, Naruto or some of the girls, when some of them will be in extreme danger because of Madara. I just want him die as a hero he was, not as a villain he became.

No. Obito's actions are not justified. He lost the girl he loved when he was still young, but so many people died and suffered because of his selfish and childish actions. Obito still shows that he has never matured because he is still obsessed by Rin's death.

His motivation to revenge has caused too much of collateral damages and to be honest, when I heard that he created all this mess because "you let Rin die", I could not believe it and lost my esteem for him.

The reason, why Obito so easily killing people, is because he knows/thinks, that they all will be alive again in his world with all their dreams become true. It's like his twisted mind thinks, that this reality has no reason to exist anymore, everything is like a paper. I don't know how to explain it properly. It's like try to imagine, that you definitely know, that you can enter the world, where everything is perfect and everyone is alive, would somebody's death mean something for you, if you would know for sure, that you will see them again in your perfect world? That's how Obito thinks.

GreatKungLao wrote:The reason, why Obito so easily killing people, is because he knows/thinks, that they all will be alive again in his world with all their dreams become true. It's like his twisted mind thinks, that this reality has no reason to exist anymore, everything is like a paper. I don't know how to explain it properly. It's like try to imagine, that you definitely know, that you can enter the world, where everything is perfect and everyone is alive, would somebody's death mean something for you, if you would know for sure, that you will see them again in your perfect world? That's how Obito thinks.

That proves again how selfish he is. He just wants to force people into HIS genjutsu where he'll be the king. He wants to impose HIS reality on everybody using tricky methods. I'll repeat myself, the very reason you support Obito is the same reason why I'm disappointed with him.

Nevertheless, it can still happen the way you described it: he makes something to help the alliance winning the war. But that does not mean he has then to be considered as a hero.

[quote="Irielo"]

GreatKungLao wrote:Nevertheless, it can still happen the way you described it: he makes something to help the alliance winning the war. But that does not mean he has then to be considered as a hero.

Not as a hero for everyone, but at least for Minato and Kakashi, who knew him personally from very beginning. I would gladly see them become happy for Obito turning back to his senses and previous principles and ideals and then sacrificing himself for good, with this he can at least be forgiven by people, who knew him and knows exactly, why he has done all this.

GreatKungLao wrote:

Irielo wrote:

GreatKungLao wrote:Nevertheless, it can still happen the way you described it: he makes something to help the alliance winning the war. But that does not mean he has then to be considered as a hero.

Not as a hero for everyone, but at least for Minato and Kakashi, who knew him personally from very beginning. I would gladly see them become happy for Obito turning back to his senses and previous principles and ideals and then sacrificing himself for good, with this he can at least be forgiven by people, who knew him and knows exactly, why he has done all this.

For Kakashi, yes, because he tried to help Obito to come back on the right side. The latter still could stop everything... but he did not listen.

For Minato, well, that would show that Minato has a really BIG heart. What Obito did to him and his family was so cruel and it's for sure not something easy to forgive. I guess we just have to wait and see how this matter will be dealt.

Warning looong post ahead lol

While one can't always control their circumstances, one can always has control over how they choose to respond to it. And Obito has responded terribly. Sure Obito's love for Rin when it was innocent and they were kids was cute, but what it eventually turned into and caused him to became is horrific. To say that Rin was the main reason he had to improve himself, to try to become Hokage, to live and breath isn't a good thing. No one's life should be that centered around another singular person, it's obsession.

I feel like Obito is a person who's been deeply hurt by the past and was unable to cope with the loss of a loved one to the point where it drove him to become mentally disturbed. At the same time I feel like he's incredibly selfish and has deluded himself into thinking his twisted ambitions are noble. Its not as if creating a genjutsu Rin will benefit Rin, who Obito is supposed to be in love with, in any way. She's still going to be dead. This is all for himself really. In his pursuit to see Rin again he's ironically spat on and endangered everything Rin gave her life to protect. He even calls the real Rin an imposter because "Rin wasn't supposed to die", seemingly unable to recognize the insanity behind that statement since everyone has to die eventually. A big problem here was that Obito never learned to respect Rin's wishes. If Obito had respected Rin’s wish to die for her village, faced reality and moved on, instead of focusing on his own desire of wanting to be with her, a good majority of the conflict in this manga could have been avoided. He's started a terrorist organization, Killed Naruto's parents, killed the 3rd's wife, played a hand in the Uchiha massacre, captured and killed several Jinchuriki, twisted Sasuke, started a war and threated to enslave the entire shinobi world in a mass genjustu, all in the name of him seeing Rin again in a fantasy reality.

Chapter 630 also made me realize just how creepy and disturbed Obito's hang up on Rin is. Since Obito used Rin's past image to try to bait Kakashi it suggests that the Rin Obito would have created in his Genjutsu world would have been a 13 year old Rin as well, to recapture how she was before she died. So instead of creating an adult version of Rin to better match himself, grown-ass Obito would have gone frolicking around with adolescent Rin in his made-up reality.

When Naruto almost turned into the nine-tails in the wake of Hinata's "death" it was because Naruto was in despair from feeling that he wasn't strong enough to protect the people he cared about and that he didn't have an answer to how to obtain peace. It made him more malleable to Kurama's goading that destroying everything would make everything better--which is insane. While Naruto almost gave in in, it was in the heat of the moment. Obito gave into Madara because he didn't want to face reality of Rin's death and Madara had promised him a way to see Rin again--Not bring Rin back to life or help Rin mind you, but a way for Obito not to have to deal with the pain of her not being with him. His desires have always been much more self-centered. And Obito has festered on these delusions for years.

While I sympathize for his lost of a loved one and understand how it must have hurt, there's nothing noble about his ambitions like Obito often tries to potray them as when he's goading members of the alliance like Naruto or Kakashi to join him. I might be alone in this were I think Obito's selfishness, his disturbed delusions and his deluded sense of righteousness actually makes him (while unlikable) interesting. but then again I find it really interesting when villains go insane or are a little disturbed anyway (Azula from atla, The Joker, Harley Quinn, even Sasuke for a little bit lol). But I don't think Obito's justified in his actons.

Irielo wrote:

GreatKungLao wrote:

Irielo wrote:

GreatKungLao wrote:Nevertheless, it can still happen the way you described it: he makes something to help the alliance winning the war. But that does not mean he has then to be considered as a hero.

Not as a hero for everyone, but at least for Minato and Kakashi, who knew him personally from very beginning. I would gladly see them become happy for Obito turning back to his senses and previous principles and ideals and then sacrificing himself for good, with this he can at least be forgiven by people, who knew him and knows exactly, why he has done all this.

For Kakashi, yes, because he tried to help Obito to come back on the right side. The latter still could stop everything... but he did not listen.

For Minato, well, that would show that Minato has a really BIG heart. What Obito did to him and his family was so cruel and it's for sure not something easy to forgive. I guess we just have to wait and see how this matter will be dealt.

One thing I don't want to happen for sure is for Minato and Kakashi giving up on Obito. Naruto's nindo is never give up, so if those words are really became part of everyone as Hinata said in 615, then they definitely should try their best and save Obito without killing.

About big heart - Naruto has it as well. He forgave Nagato without knowing, that he is able to resurrect everyone. Even when Konan said, that Nagato can bring back everyone, who he killed during Konoha's invasion, she mentioned, that it will kill Nagato himself and Naruto actually felt sorry right at that moment for Nagato dying, because Naruto don't want others to give their lifes, he want to save everyone as possible.

Spoiler:

You can see clearly by his face, if there was a way to help Nagato stay alive as well, he would do it without any thoughts behind him. Because Naruto is the only one, who appreaciates life - any kind of life. If I'm not mistaken, so far Naruto is the only one, who didn't killed ANYONE directly (as well as Hinata by the way).

If his father at least even close as his son, then he should do the same for Obito.

@ Aelita Thanks to put everything in a clear perspective. I agree with what you wrote.

Spoiler:

@ GreatKungLao "try their best and save Obito without killing". Yes, if Obito accepts to be saved, if not, if he keeps on destroying everything, then "it can't be helped" (Madara), he will have to be eliminated.

GreatKungLao wrote:The reason, why Obito so easily killing people, is because he knows/thinks, that they all will be alive again in his world with all their dreams become true. It's like his twisted mind thinks, that this reality has no reason to exist anymore, everything is like a paper. I don't know how to explain it properly. It's like try to imagine, that you definitely know, that you can enter the world, where everything is perfect and everyone is alive, would somebody's death mean something for you, if you would know for sure, that you will see them again in your perfect world? That's how Obito thinks.

I understand what you're saying. To Obito, it doesn't matter who he kills or who ends up dying in this reality, because to him, he could always recreate them in his alternate reality. Even though he caused the death of his Sensei and Kushina, In Obito's mind he could live with them again once he completes his genjutsu, and he could make it like they never even died at all. However, this is an incredibly self-centered mindset, as the people who ended up dying, at the end of the day are still going to be dead. The real Kushina and Minato aren't going to benefit from this genjustu world at all. This mind-set Obito has created allows him to operate and kill without conscious. He's become a sort of a sociopath. Obito doesn't feel guilt over killing anyone in his way, because to him, he can make it all right again in his perfect alternate reality and that he's doing the world a service by including (forcing) those who he hasn't killed, in it.

I actually didn't answered on the question of this topic.

No, Obito's actions are not justified, but I can see where they are coming from.

I just like Obito as a well written villain. I'm so tired of generic bad guys, who seek for world's conquest or world control, money, power and other boring things.

It's much more interesting to look at villains like Obito. The ones, who were very good at the beginning, but turned twisted and absolutely different from themsevles from the past. It's just scares and amaze at the same time, how person could be changed because of the worng time and wrong place. And it's much more interesting, when villain pursues, as it seems at the beginning, a noble goal, but tools, that he is using for this are absolutely mad. Again, it's interesting, how people with the same goals are trying to reach them by absolutely different paths.

GreatKungLao wrote:I actually didn't answered on the question of this topic.

No, Obito's actions are not justified, but I can see where they are coming from.

I just like Obito as a well written villain. I'm so tired of generic bad guys, who seek for world's conquest or world control, money, power and other boring things.

It's much more interesting to look at villains like Obito. The ones, who were very good at the beginning, but turned twisted and absolutely different from themsevles from the past. It's just scares and amaze at the same time, how person could be changed because of the worng time and wrong place. And it's much more interesting, when villain pursues, as it seems at the beginning, a noble goal, but tools, that he is using for this are absolutely mad. Again, it's interesting, how people with the same goals are trying to reach them by absolutely different paths.

So, if Obito was a "victim of circumstances", one could say that his actions are somehow justified. By admitting that his actions are not that justified, I guess that putting everything solely on the circumstances becomes thus obsolete.

But I find interesting the reasons why you like Obito as villain. The thing is, he was on the same path like Naruto, had the same dreams, but then changed. Maybe that was a way to show that although two people can have the same goals and are alike in personalities, that does not mean that they will end up the same. One will make a choice which will lead him on a path and the other one will make another choice which will lead him on the opposite path... And that's what makes the difference between Naruto and Obito.

Irielo wrote:

GreatKungLao wrote:I actually didn't answered on the question of this topic.

No, Obito's actions are not justified, but I can see where they are coming from.

I just like Obito as a well written villain. I'm so tired of generic bad guys, who seek for world's conquest or world control, money, power and other boring things.

It's much more interesting to look at villains like Obito. The ones, who were very good at the beginning, but turned twisted and absolutely different from themsevles from the past. It's just scares and amaze at the same time, how person could be changed because of the worng time and wrong place. And it's much more interesting, when villain pursues, as it seems at the beginning, a noble goal, but tools, that he is using for this are absolutely mad. Again, it's interesting, how people with the same goals are trying to reach them by absolutely different paths.

So, if Obito was a "victim of circumstances", one could say that his actions are somehow justified. By admitting that his actions are not that justified, I guess that putting everything solely on the circumstances becomes thus obsolete.

But I find interesting the reasons why you like Obito as villain. The thing is, he was on the same path like Naruto, had the same dreams, but then changed. Maybe that was a way to show that although two people can have the same goals and are alike in personalities, that does not mean that they will end up the same. One will make a choice which will lead him on a path and the other one will make another choice which will lead him on the opposite path... And that's what makes the difference between Naruto and Obito.

His actions are not justified from my point of view =) If I was Obito, I don't know, what I would think, but coming from what I know about him, I think I would be obsessed with perfect illusion world idea, because I also would like to see everyone alive, so that I can talk to them again, touch them again, live with them again, because live through loss is something that is very very very and really hard. From Obito's point of view, his actions are justified, because they will bring "peace".

No, Obito`s actions are not justified, but I dont believe that he is to blame
yes, he ruined a family, killed people and many other things, but, you know, like GreatKungLao say, his only influence when Rin died was Uchiha Madara, so you can expect from an evil man like Madara turns Obito into something like him. I believe that if by some reason Rin is Edo Tensei`d, Obito will call her an imposter, because the Real Rin isnt death, showing how much has changed because of Madara. But.... even though I hate him for everything he did, I dont want him to die as a villain, I want him to die as a redeemed hero, even from the beggining, I always believed that it was thank to him that Kakashi grown up into the awesome man he is now, also he saved both Kakashi and Rin before his "Death", and before Madara comes, he was like Naruto.... I believe something needs to happen to make him redeem of his actions, then have a noble death, also I gotta agree with that, killing Obito like that will only leads to more Madara and Obito Uchihas, more Pain, and nobody wants that, so Naruto needs to do something, I dont know if Madara can be changed, but I believe Obito can

You always can't control circumstance but you can control your actions. Your actions define you. For Obito, his action define him ever since he lost Rin.

There is one thing that Obito can't handle; he can't handle reality. And reality makes for a horrible SFX crew. Now he is all but lost himself in the 10 tails because of his dream of a "fantasy world." He is hell bent on making it happen even if he turns into a monster.

Can he be saved? Well i could give an opinion on that but it'll be concidered character bashing, so i shall remain mute.

Are his actions justified? Nope. Just because you lost the person you love, doesn't mean you give up. Keep their memory alive within you and move forward with them in your heart.

racefan1992 wrote:You always can't control circumstance but you can control your actions. Your actions define you. For Obito, his action define him ever since he lost Rin.

There is one thing that Obito can't handle; he can't handle reality. And reality makes for a horrible SFX crew. Now he is all but lost himself in the 10 tails because of his dream of a "fantasy world." He is hell bent on making it happen even if he turns into a monster.

Can he be saved? Well i could give an opinion on that but it'll be concidered character bashing, so i shall remain mute.

Are his actions justified? Nope. Just because you lost the person you love, doesn't mean you give up. Keep their memory alive within you and move forward with them in your heart.

I agree 100% on that.

racefan1992 wrote:Are his actions justified? Nope. Just because you lost the person you love, doesn't mean you give up. Keep their memory alive within you and move forward with them in your heart.

About that. In chapter 615 Naruto was ready to walk the same path, because he almost didn't handled Neji's death. You can see by his crazy eyes, that it is too much for him. It was all thanks to Hinata, that he make it from the darkness. If there was Uchiha Madara instead of Hinata, like he was for Obito, then things would be soo much different...

There wasn't anyone for Obito, to say these "Keep their memory alive within you and move forward with them in your heart.", while Hinata did that for Naruto. Considering, that Obito was a kid at time, when he met Madara, you should count the influence of previous generation on the new geneartion. The person you will become also depends on people, who surrounds you and their relationships with you. Gaara is another Obito-like example, he became monster, because it was a monster, that everyone saw in Gaara from his very birth, but he met Naruto, everything changed, because he was the first person in Gaara's life, who saw him not as a monster, but as an equal to himself - a human.

GreatKungLao wrote:

racefan1992 wrote:Are his actions justified? Nope. Just because you lost the person you love, doesn't mean you give up. Keep their memory alive within you and move forward with them in your heart.

About that. In chapter 615 Naruto was ready to walk the same path, because he almost didn't handled Neji's death. You can see by his crazy eyes, that it is too much for him. It was all thanks to Hinata, that he make it from the darkness. If there was Uchiha Madara instead of Hinata, like he was for Obito, then things would be soo much different...

There wasn't anyone for Obito, to say these "Keep their memory alive within you and move forward with them in your heart.", while Hinata did that for Naruto. Considering, that Obito was a kid at time, when he met Madara, you should count the influence of previous generation on the new geneartion. The person you will become also depends on people, who surrounds you and their relationships with you. Gaara is another Obito-like example, he became monster, because it was a monster, that everyone saw in Gaara from his very birth, but he met Naruto, everything changed, because he was the first person in Gaara's life, who saw him not as a monster, but as an equal to himself - a human.

You have a point regarding Madara's influence on Obito but Obito stated himself that Madara was not really an ally to him. And he remained quite suspicious towards Madara. So, who was/is using who? I think both of them tried to use each other.

Madara has a hell of a lot more influence on Obito than just being there to play tricks in his mind and sway him to the Dark Side with words, so to speak. Madara literally implanted his will into Obito. Those black rods sticking out of Obito last chap prove that. It explains why Madara was so sure Obito would return to him and thank him, it explains why Madara wasn't really worried when Obito was defying him, it explains why crybaby little Obito Uchiha who had a noble heart and helped little old ladies for God's sake, ended up a sadistic mass murder with no empathy. Madara Uchiha's Will fanned the flames, no pun intended, of jealousy and envy in Obito's heart and turned them into a roaring inferno of Hate and Despair. Rin's death did affect him, but it was Madara's influence that did not allow that wound to heal.
Madara is the puppet master here, I seriously doubt he would just entrust some 16 year old kid with a grudge with a plan he's been cooking up for the better part of a century. He needed a guarantee so he implanted his will into Obito's Senju half to have control over the darkness in his heart. That small defiance Obito showed could very well have been what little remained of the old Obito rising to the surface again. Madara corrupted Obito's ideals and emotions but he couldn't change his personality as Obito always was a rulebreaker and went against those in authority, those he didn't respect anyway.

Obito can be redeemed as a hero and he should, but he should not live from a story perspective. Even though it was not entirely his fault, the weakness in his heart allowed many atrocities to happen and I cannot accept him having a happy ending while he has effectively dashed that hope from many other characters he has victimized.

SenpaiSamaSan wrote:Madara has a hell of a lot more influence on Obito than just being there to play tricks in his mind and sway him to the Dark Side with words, so to speak. Madara literally implanted his will into Obito. Those black rods sticking out of Obito last chap prove that. It explains why Madara was so sure Obito would return to him and thank him, it explains why Madara wasn't really worried when Obito was defying him, it explains why crybaby little Obito Uchiha who had a noble heart and helped little old ladies for God's sake, ended up a sadistic mass murder with no empathy. Madara Uchiha's Will fanned the flames, no pun intended, of jealousy and envy in Obito's heart and turned them into a roaring inferno of Hate and Despair. Rin's death did affect him, but it was Madara's influence that did not allow that wound to heal.
Madara is the puppet master here, I seriously doubt he would just entrust some 16 year old kid with a grudge with a plan he's been cooking up for the better part of a century. He needed a guarantee so he implanted his will into Obito's Senju half to have control over the darkness in his heart. That small defiance Obito showed could very well have been what little remained of the old Obito rising to the surface again. Madara corrupted Obito's ideals and emotions but he couldn't change his personality as Obito always was a rulebreaker and went against those in authority, those he didn't respect anyway.

Obito can be redeemed as a hero and he should, but he should not live from a story perspective. Even though it was not entirely his fault, the weakness in his heart allowed many atrocities to happen and I cannot accept him having a happy ending while he has effectively dashed that hope from many other characters he has victimized.

I don't know what to say, just well done! I never thought about this important detail, how Madara "implanted his will into Obito's Senju half". That's a very interesting point.

But It's not like Obito didn't have other precious people other than Rin either. Kakashi, Minato, his family, his clan his leaf comrades? In Gaiden, Obito had been portrayed as very loyal to the leaf and held the leafs way of thinking and valuing comrades. Obito could have run to them for comfort once the heat of the moment had passed, but choose not to.

When Obito had Naruto teetering on the edge of despair it wasn't just Neji's death (though Naruto's never done well with seeing his friends killed in front of him), Obito had also used Naruto's past loneliness against him, something that Naruto has serious anxiety over. That's the source of Naruto's fears of losing loved ones. The thought of all his friends dying and him ending up alone again is what caused him to falter. It's only after Hinata and Kurama both remind him how his life is connected with everyone that he comes back to his senses and realizes his life was never his own.

Gaara's case is far different from Obito's. Gaara grew up constantly hated, feared, and shunned by his entire village. Gaara's loneliness drove him towards insanity. He learned to validate himself through killing others because that's exactly what his father and the state had repeatedly tried to do to him. That was the only interaction he had ever known, no one had ever really treated him with comradely, someone was always trying to deny and end his existence-- but he resolved to kill them first and confirm that he was indeed alive. While that doesn't justify Gaara killing people, he was truly a victim of his circumstance.

In Obito's case, besides losing Rin, Obito had lived a pretty good life with no past trauma that may have contributed to him snapping. I agree that Madara's influence played a big role here, and I find SenpaiSamaSan's post about implanting his will into Obito very interesting and possible. But Obito still choose to follow Madara. He choose to block out his bonds with his other teammates, family, village and clan. He choose to disregard Rin's will (since she's an imposter). He willingly threw away all the teachings he had been taught from birth as a leaf shinobi (will of fire and such). There were other options out there, but he choose to accept Madara's will and plan for his own desire of seeing Rin again, because he couldn't deal with the pain of her really being gone. He's not a victim of his circumstance here, as true victims of circumstance don't choose their path, they are shaped by them.

I'm with SenpaiSamaSan, the chances of Obito surviving this manga are low. There is a chance that he might be saved spiritually or mentally though, which would be consistent with the themes of the manga. However, the thought of Obito suddenly changing his mind kinda makes me want to roll my eyes (even though I know how possible it is). Obito has been festering on these delusions for about 14-15 years, almost half his damn life. It'd take something really impressive for Obito to be converted and still have it be believable imo.

Aelita wrote:In Obito's case, besides losing Rin, Obito had lived a pretty good life with no past trauma that may have contributed to him snapping.

I don't know, if life as an always looser is a good life. He was always loosing to others - in battles and in love. And right before he "died", he asked Kakashi to protect Rin with all coast, but Kakashi broke the promise, which also could lead Obito to insanity.

Here are some spotlights:

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