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Post by Mustang on Sat Nov 01, 2014 1:56 pm

Oh wow, just spotted a comment from somewhere, cannot remember, but that is because i cannot be bothered.

there was a picture of Sakura performing CPR, and it was using it as evidence, then NH would come along and.

NH wrote:Really using Sakura performing a medical procedure as evidence, sorry that doesn't constitute as romantic.
NS wrote:Sakura thought about his dreams and everything.

NH wrote:It still doesn't make it romantic, just because she is thinking of his dreams. Sakura isn't going to take advantage of a character who was basically braindead, she better than that, if Sakura took advantage of a character who was in that sort of condition, that would make her a shallow, opportunistic bitch, which she isn't. she was doing her job as a medic and the job of a medic is to save people's lives.

plus the reason why Sakura was thinking of Naruto's dreams because she wants to see him achieve those dreams because Sakura is Naruto's friend. that was all there ever was between Naruto and Sakura, friendship.

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Post by Uzumaki Neji on Sun Nov 02, 2014 6:45 am

I've been reading the narutobase "I ship" thread, and found a silly NS argument. Supposedly, since this movie occurs 2 years later, naruto
"ignored hinata's love for 2 years therefore all those manga panels for NH mean nothing!"Essentially, this is NS trying to bash the now-canon
NH pairing by saying kishi pulled NH out of nowhere.
There's a double standard here in that this would mean Nardo and Sakura have been ignoring each other's "love" for 2 years, therefore all those "NS panels" (which are really friendship and often that centers on sasuke)mean nothing as well.
NS would most likely reply"but hinata confessed, naruto has to answer it or it's automatic rejection."Naruto said himself to minato that he wasn't sure what he felt about love. Why then, is sakura allowed to be "confused" about her feelings, but Naruto isn't?
Also, NS contradicts itself once again, as earlier it said there was "no manga evidence for NH", and now it says 2 years of time contradicts this evidence.

One piece of evidence for NH I've never seen NS try to counter is " you and Hinata share the same destiny"-Neji
Most likely this is because saying 3rd person POV isn't important
would make "sakura loves sasuke" Sai, Minato,and yamato's unfinished sentence worthless, and reduce NS to what is essentially
the crush of a little boy, who has matured since then.
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Post by Mustang on Sun Nov 02, 2014 10:18 am

So let's hammer those arguments into the ground for kicks and digs.

so lets start with Naruto ignoring Hinata's confession, for now it has only been a couple of weeks since the confession from Hinata. we all know that Naruto is not going to answer straight away, that would be rather unrealistic. but now for the 2 year time skip, i am going with this argument, if we remember back to chapter 691 when Naruto was talking to his father, he still lacks the expirence to make such a call. that is just NS trying to find leverage for NS considering that Naruto and Sakura have basically had no romantic development.

now just because Naruto hasn't given Hinata an answer, it doesn't mean that he has rejected her, I have had to explain that to NH myself, (from aomewhere else) it just means he isn't ready to answer, which is fine, there is no need for Kishi to rush the pairing, that is something NS just doesn't get, 2-3 weeks after Hinata confesses and then Naruto make his answer, sadly that would be rushing it a little, since initially Naruto might not have considered the possibility. But with 2 year time skip, it is giving Naruto enough time to think about it and learn more about girls, which is something that hurts NS, because when he acted in the early days around Sakura, it showed that he didn't understand. but Naruto willing to learn shows that he is getting more mature about his attitude, willing to learn is a great attitude to have.

it refuses to face the simple truth, there is no evidence of Naruto being in love with Sakura, just like there is no proof now that his crush on her has remained a constant, As for Sakura, there is no proof that she has moved/is moving on from Sasuke like it wants her to, there is no proof that she is falling in love with Naruto, what makes that hillarious, is that during one of the promotionals we see Sakura actually encouraging Hinata to do something for Naruto, so it seems like in this movie, Sakura is actually a NaruHina shipper as well, which is a real kick in the guts for NS.

now there is one more thing Uzumaki Neji, until proven otherwise no ship is canon, not even NaruHina, but i am hoping that will change in the next few days.


Last edited by Mustang on Sun Nov 02, 2014 10:21 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Irielo on Sun Nov 02, 2014 10:19 am

@ Uzumaki Neji NS will remain in its denying way of thinking regarding any NH moment. NS tends to forget whatever does not suit its taste. Naruto never rejected Hinata's confession, but he did reject Sakura's fake one on the spot.

If he truly wanted to reject Hinata confession, nothing would have stopped him to do so. The thing is that right after Pein, he was busy with other issues such as Sasuke joining Akatsuki, his training on Turtle Island and the war.

Again, Naruto never stated that he does not know what love is. He simply admit to Minato that he still has to learn more about women, as he never had a girlfriend, nor had a date with a girl, nor kissed a girl.

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Post by Mustang on Sun Nov 02, 2014 10:51 am

the best way he can gain that exerience and learn about women is by dating one, by having a girlfriend and kissing her, you see the one thing is Naruto doesn't realise it, is that Hinata has the patience for him, (something i think he will find out in the movie) she isn't going to rush Naruto, she is going to give Naruto the time and space he deserves to have, but there will come a time when Hinata will finally act on her resolve.

the one thing that it refuses to face, is that NS has had plenty of time, plenty of opportunities to develop a romantic undertone, but that has never happened, sure they have developed a lasting friendship, but that has never been pushed beyond that. It is now too late for NaruSaku, too late to develop that romantic undertone, too late for those two to develop a romance, if it hasn't happened by now, it will never happen.

Plus like i pointed out Sakura is the one encouaging Hinata to act on her love for Naruto, not in the same manner as with Pein, but to do something special for Naruto (getting him a personal gift, the red scarf), because she knows herself what it means to be in love, (Sakura with Sasuke) so with Sakura actually supporting NaruHina, it shows now, that much to the dismay of NS, NaruSaku truly has nothing left to hold on to.

with the movie being confirmed canon and Sakura encouraging Hinata to do something for Naruto, it looks like one half of NaruSaku has just proven that, that ship is nothing but a dead ship. I always did say that the reasons why NS will not occur is because of the N and S, Sakura encouraging Hinata and Naruto staring at Hinata with great intent, just proves my point.

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Post by Irielo on Sun Nov 02, 2014 11:01 am

^I even think that this ship is a none-starter as it was never meant to be in the first place. In other words, it is not dead since it never came to life and will not come to life. Only friendship exists between Naruto and Sakura.

Like you pointed it out, there were enough opportunities for it to develop on a romantic level but Sakura kept on loving Sasuke and Naruto came to know about Hinata's feelings for him. One must be blind not to see that after Hinata's confession, every interaction Naruto had with Hinata was very positive.

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Post by Uzumaki Neji on Sun Nov 02, 2014 12:08 pm

@mustang:Sorry about saying NH is canon, it isn't canon yet but I just mentioned it mostly because NS was bashing NH as being canon "out of nowhere" after the trailer came out. Soon enough it went back to denial after saying some BS about how since the movie trailer was showing NH, and kishi wouldn't spoil pairings, it must be a ns movie...
Of course, since kishi is directing this movie, and it is about love, I highly doubt the confirmed pairing of NH won't reference manga events that made Naruto come to love Hinata and the other way around.(proud failure speech, 615, blood bond, seeing naruto as a nice, mischievous, boy instead of as a demon like everyone else did)
Also, Hinata's determination to be with Naruto is matched by Sakura's determination to be with Sasuke(and also bring him out of the darkness). Even if Naruto did love Sakura, it would be completely cruel and out of character for Naruto to go after her despite her love for Sasuke. First of all, it would mess with Team 7's chemistry a lot even if he got Sakura to like him and reject Sasuke.
Up until this last chapter, Naruto's whole goal in life has been to bring
back his best friend(Also to be hokage). Romance has never really been anywhere near as important to him,which is probably why it'll be a while before he figures out there's something he has to say to a certain hyuuga girl:)
Why in the world would Naruto risk losing essentially his
brother he FINALLY got back so he can satisfy his "true wub" with sakwa-chan? I know it's essentially panicked damage control, but I wish certain parts of NS wouldn't delude themselves like this.Acceptance is the first step to recovery...
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Post by RickVal(NaruHina Rules) on Sun Nov 02, 2014 1:36 pm

Actually I don't think this time skip is just something that happens, I think Naruto and Hinata are actually in the town and are kind of "dating" getting to know each other better you know as Naruto doesn't know what love actually is but with this two years we get his answer after knowing and growing to love Hinata in this two years so much more than what he actually does right now.. and Hinata giving Naruto the red scarf actually means that yes Naruto and Hinata are going to be on a date and this date gets interrupted and when Naruto is faced with the possibility in the mission that he could lose Hinata forever then he realizes to himself, that he can't lose Hinata because Naruto loves her so much.. and as I once said before NS doesn't have any solid proof.. after Fakfession was rejected by Naruto then and there I say NS died.. zzz...
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Post by Mustang on Mon Nov 03, 2014 1:12 am

have a look at this comment by NS. most of all i laughed at this comment and even hit my head on the desk my computer is sitting on a few times

NS wrote:BREAKING NEWS: Kishimoto rethinking Naruto pairings....EVEN NARUTO CAN'T BELIEVE IT!

In a recent interview with Shounen Jump, Masashi Kishimoto admitted that he had some regrets with how he had planned out the romance in Naruto.

He said that he originally planned for Naruto and Hinata, as well as Sasuke and Sakura to end up together. But now he feels that it was mostly “wish fulfillment” that made him decide on these pairings.

He admits that lately he feels that Naruto and Sakura should end up together instead because he noticed the similarity between Sakura and Naruto’s mother, Kushina. However, he doesn’t know how he can negate Hinata’s sacrifice for Naruto and the recent events in chapter 615 without making Naruto look like a fucking asshole

NH then asked, where is the link to the source material and also when was this interview done, unless it realises most posted interviews supposedly done by Kishi are usually fake in order to power the arguments of the ships,

funny thing is I went to search for the interview and found no such material, oh well i guess NS is that desperate to use a fake interview created for the soul purpose of trolling.

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Post by RickVal(NaruHina Rules) on Mon Nov 03, 2014 1:49 am

zzzzzzzz.... it wants to grasp at something that isn't there.. z...
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Post by Mustang on Mon Nov 03, 2014 1:59 am

what got me doubting the authenticity, is that Kishi was supposedly going to change his mind all of a sudden, what also got me thinking that it was a pretyped interview was the fact that a source material wasn't even in the link, plus the use of Sakura being very similar to Kushina and wanting to negate everything that Hinata made a sacrifice for, that is like undoing the story entirely just to suit NS.

well that is what NS want's too bad that is what NS doesn't get. Kishi isn't going to change things around just because it wants him to. oh well, I guess there is a portion of NS that will not accept the simple truth NaruHina will go canon.

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Post by RickVal(NaruHina Rules) on Mon Nov 03, 2014 2:14 am

Nothing much we can do my friend at least there are mature enough people with whom we can chat or have normal conversations with.. (and well I sometimes "ok ok all the time" get inmature just fot the hecks of it)
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Post by Uzumaki Neji on Mon Nov 03, 2014 4:22 am

Just wait until Wednesday, the amount of attempted spoils will be astronomical.
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Post by Irielo on Mon Nov 03, 2014 5:20 am

There is a part of NS which will stoop that low to deny the natural course of the story by putting words in Kishimoto's mouth or by putting the blame on him.

It's sad that this part still can't understand that its ship was never meant to sail in the first place, as there is nothing in the manga to fuel it. The ship "sailed" fueled by: imagination, some fillers and a constant denying of the original story... This led to a twisted interpretation of things reinforced by a permanent wishful way of thinking.

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Post by RickVal(NaruHina Rules) on Mon Nov 03, 2014 9:34 am

^^ What you said Irielo.. but to tell the truth if it was the other way around (you know what I mean) I would say yes it was totally worth it.. so yeah.. "

dark me: don't be a liar if that happened you know you would go into a killing spree...zzzz....
me: "hey don't say that now, that's not true..."
dark me: it isn't???
me: "emm... ok?.."
dark me: "ok"...

ok sorry about that little part XD... no one saw it ok???
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Post by Irielo on Mon Nov 03, 2014 9:38 am

RickVal(NaruHina Rules) wrote:^^ What you said Irielo.. but to tell the truth if it was the other way around (you know what I mean) I would say yes it was totally worth it.. so yeah.. "

I can't get your point here. Could you please be more clear about it?

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Post by RickVal(NaruHina Rules) on Mon Nov 03, 2014 9:43 am

That if instead it was ns that got the "spotlight" (which we know is not possible thanks to the evidence till now) and follow the storyline I would say to myself at least that well.. I don't know how did this happen with all the evidence going for NaruHina but in the end didn't happen then I would say.. ok nothing much I could do or say it's the author's final decision in the end.. don't you agree?..

dark me: I don't ¬¬..
me: "Hey I'm trying to have a serious chat here so shut up for 5 mins"
dark me: ¬¬..
me: ..........
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Post by Irielo on Mon Nov 03, 2014 9:56 am

^If the original story was going to NS' direction, then I would have accepted it long time ago. The thing is that the NaruHina's seeds were already planted in part 1 of the story, it just needed to grow in part 2 and that's what happened.

I mean, it would have been easy for the mangaka to stop this growth already in part 2, but that was not the case. From time to time, NaruHina's pairing was given the water of love to become a strong tree, which will at the end of the day, come to fruition (in the epilogue).

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Post by RickVal(NaruHina Rules) on Mon Nov 03, 2014 10:00 am

We all saw that Irielo "NaruHina's growth till now"... but nothing is said or done untill we get the final chapter.. anything can happen.. I mean it could happen that Naruto in the end marries to Hanabi then I would be like ????? O_O ??? (sure we know this is not possible thanks to the evidence but we need the final chapter to have a final and concrete say in the matter zzz.... I HATE THAT but huff nothing much to say in that aspect).
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Post by Irielo on Mon Nov 03, 2014 10:07 am

RickVal(NaruHina Rules) wrote:We all saw that Irielo "NaruHina's growth till now"... but nothing is said or done untill we get the final chapter.. anything can happen.. I mean it could happen that Naruto in the end marries to Hanabi then I would be like ????? O_O ??? (sure we know this is not possible thanks to the evidence but we need the final chapter to have a final and concrete say in the matter zzz.... I HATE THAT but huff nothing much to say in that aspect).

You know what? If you want to think that there is a possibility that Naruto would marry: Hanabi, Sakura, Ten Ten, Ino, Karui, Mei or other female characters in the Naruto series, then it's up to you. I won't bother myself in speculating about the "if this" and "if that"...

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Post by RickVal(NaruHina Rules) on Mon Nov 03, 2014 10:09 am

mmmm yeah there's nothing much to worry about in this particular matter... but my question is why is there a blank point in the manga.... sure the movie fills in this blank point but what is it that really happens that can be totally surprising in the end(manga epilogue) that needs to address this particular blank point??? any Ideas??
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Post by Irielo on Mon Nov 03, 2014 10:20 am

^Please! Stop with this "blank point" here and "blank point" there. Don't you inform yourself? Don't you read what some genuine members here are bringing as informations? Or are you simply making fun of the whole fandom??

In case there is any time-skip, for instance in the epilogue, showing Naruto and Hinata already married and eventually with their kids, it's only natural that people will ask themselves what happened in the meantime. And the movie is supposed to cover this meantime, right?

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Post by lily567 on Mon Nov 03, 2014 10:23 am

the blank point imo would be romance and naruto finding out more about romantic love from someone who has give it to him from the beginning. don't forget that naruto is a shonen and not romance( which is a sub plot). so the blank point kishi is showing us in the movie is what he couldn't fully do in the manga which is all out romance
ok in the manga naruto got acknowledged by everyone and is a hero of the village. ok good
naruto found out more about love(mainly parental from his parents) and he learns that a certain woman is in love with him (hinata).
naruto is still young, he has alot more to know and to understand especially about love(romantic).
in the movie naruto is getting to know hinata better and have grasp of understanding of women( from being with hinata)

with everything going on in the manga( war, bringing home sasuke etc) naruto couldn't really focus on other things.


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Post by RickVal(NaruHina Rules) on Mon Nov 03, 2014 12:46 pm

@Irielo Why would I make fun of even my fandom ?? ok that's not the point...
@Lily thanks I get it more now...
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Post by lily567 on Mon Nov 03, 2014 1:05 pm

@rickval no problem


ns:
Why do you care about the movie? NaruHina fans are hyping this up, but they don't understand anything or the consequences of supporting the movie.



Hinata was rejected by Naruto when they were kids and this makes her cry. It traumatizes her enough that she isn't able to give him a scarf 10 years later. NH fans have been saying for years that Naruto makes Hinata strong, that she got braver after the confession, that she would have died for him. However, in the movie, Hinata cannot give him a present. This is pathetic and weak of her, and she's like this because of Naruto.



Friends give presents to each other, but Hinata can't do even that. This means they're not in a relationship. It also means that Naruto isn't in love with her, even after everything that happened between them in the manga. Sacrificing her life for Naruto and confessing her love? Mattered not. Supporting him against Obito and giving him courage? Mattered not either. She's still just his friend. Remember all those arguments that he was considering her love confession and that's why he didn't answer her confession? He wasn't. Nobody takes two years considering if they should date someone.



It also implies everything that happened between them was platonic from Naruto's side. Going Kyubi on Pain? Platonic. Handhold? Platonic. Yet NH fans said otherwise. That Hinata confession made Naruto love her. That Naruto saying that he saw her feelings in her eyes, was a hint that Naruto loved her. That the handhold was yet another hint that he loved her. That him reacting to her thinking of him before entering IT was the final hint that he loved her. But none of that is true if we are to believe the movie's advertisement. Their development (if we call it that) might have made them close, but it wasn't romantic, like we've always said.



Even if NH is made canon in the movie (doubt it), it means they got everything wrong but who ended up with who. All the development (if we call it that) and all those arguments NH fans babbled for years were irrelevant. Naruto didn't fall for her because of anything that happened in the manga, and that's hillarious. NH fans always said that their development and relationship and moments made their ship canon. It's not true. Nothing that happened in the manga mattered outside of making them close. It took two years (so not connected with the manga's plot) and a filler movie for that to happen (and I'm saying this if it happens, which I doubt).



I'm a Sakura fan above everything. I'll be happy with whoever she ends up with, as long as she's happy. As an ANH fan, this movie pleases me and I don't get why NH fans are happy about it, since it proves ANH right about everything we've always said and NH fans wrong about everything they've always said, with the exception of who ends up with who. All they'll be able to brag about is that they end up together. They will celebrate that and sh*t, but to themselves? Bitterness. All their nonsense arguments supported by the manga are irrelevant and wrong. All their LAPs and essays? Wrong.



Unless they're really just that stupid.


and the debunking begins

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