chapter 653 discussion and 654 predictions

by **lily567** Mon Oct 28, 2013 8:39 pm

http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/653

its out ppl and I would give a hint
the last panel is that of 615

by **Bubbles** Mon Oct 28, 2013 8:54 pm

My breath caught in my throat when I saw that! o:
Also , I have to admit....the obirin flashbacks were cute.

by **lily567** Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:07 pm

Bubbles wrote:My breath caught in my throat when I saw that! o:
Also , I have to admit....the obirin flashbacks were cute.

yh I agree I know you guys don't like parallels but that scene where obito got sand in his eyes and then rin spoke to him if you get what I mean, It kinda reminded me of chapter 98, the way how rin saw through the façade the same way hinata did

by **Bubbles** Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:26 pm

lily567 wrote:
Bubbles wrote:My breath caught in my throat when I saw that! o:
Also , I have to admit....the obirin flashbacks were cute.
yh I agree I know you guys don't like parallels but that scene where obito got sand in his eyes and then rin spoke to him if you get what I mean, It kinda reminded me of chapter 98, the way how rin saw through the façade the same way hinata did

It seems both Hinata and Rin can do this yes.

I couldn't help feeling a bit excited when I saw the flashback panels of 615.

Spoiler:

This was just before the moment Hinata slaps Naruto back to his senses.

I know there is a big chance that nothing will come of it, but just seeing those panels made me so hopeful. I can't help but to hope that this will lead into a big NaruHina moment...but I will squash those big hopes to prevent from future epic disappointment. x_x

Spoiler:

Naruto then says that if Rin were alive, she would say "don't act strong and hide."
It kind of reminds me of how Hinata was there for Naruto, while Rin wasn't there for Obito (through no fault of her own). Obito having Rin around might have helped change his path, the way Hinata being there for Naruto during that critical moment (and all his critical moments) changed his path.

It also reminds me about how Naruto used to act strong and hide, yet he did not hide from Hinata...at least not for more than a moment.

Spoiler:

The difference between ObiRin and NaruHina is that Obito hid his emotions from Rin, while Naruto stopped doing so by himself with Hinata. Rin also told Obito not to do that anymore and she'll be by his side, and then she holds his hand and runs with him to their teammates.

by **Irielo** Mon Oct 28, 2013 11:13 pm

So the "TalK No Jutsu" has started. The thing I found interesting in this chapter was to learn that Obito grew up without parents like Naruto. On the last page there is this panel showing Hinata, Neji's death and Naruto.

I don't think that it was a coincidence that this panel was chosen after Obito's memories about Rin. She told Obito that she would watch over him and that she would stay by his side... Hinata might have not said that to Naruto but he acknowledged that himself.

So by losing Rin, Obito felt completely alone whereas Naruto still has his friends and especially Hinata by his side.

by **Mustang** Mon Oct 28, 2013 11:31 pm

Well it seems like this chapter is edging us closer to a NaruHina moment, Obito is about to be redeemed and the final stages of the fight will be soon, I think Obito will sacrifice himself not next chapter but in a future chapter.

on a side note, I can sense a shit storm coming up, we know where from too I will give you one guess.

by **JulaShona** Tue Oct 29, 2013 12:01 am

I can't!

chapter 653 discussion and 654 predictions 1697708315

This chapter gave me all of a sudden some NaruHina feels which I didn't expected at all! chapter 653 discussion and 654 predictions 195309866

Naruto is a master when it comes to talk-no-jutsu!
Obito has to come to the good side, to have a fulfilling life, thought it will be hard at the beginning, because he did all this horrible things and not everyone would forgive him all of a sudden. The same goes for Sasuke, too.
I really hope Obito doesn't say anything wrong in the next chapter, otherwise I'll freak out and would love to punch him on the face. chapter 653 discussion and 654 predictions 1531524494

chapter 653 discussion and 654 predictions 1531524494

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by **Irielo** Tue Oct 29, 2013 12:13 am

JulaShona wrote:I can't! This chapter gave me all of a sudden some NaruHina feels which I didn't expected at all!

Naruto is a master when it comes to talk-no-jutsu!
Obito has to come to the good side, to have a fulfilling life, thought it will be hard at the beginning, because he did all this horrible things and not everyone would forgive him all of a sudden. The same goes for Sasuke, too.
I really hope Obito doesn't say anything wrong in the next chapter, otherwise I'll freak out and would love to punch him on the face.

Sasuke did not reach Obito's level of wrong-doings yet imo. Moreover he and Itachi stopped Kabuto and Onoki himself said, if I'm not wrong, that the one(s) who could stop him should be considered as a hero. Thanks to Sasuke, the former Hokage could come back to help as well and Tsunade was able to recover with Orochimaru's help.

I will make one of my crazy prediction again. Naruto can forgive Obito and I think Minato and Kakashi too but I'm not sure for the rest. They might see him as a danger, a threat which has to be definitely eliminated and Sasuke, who had to suffer because of Obito too, will show no mercy and he will kill Obito. For having dealt with Kabuto and Obito, Sasuke will afterwards be acknowledged as the war greatest hero and will be designed as the next Hokage.

Naruto will be disappointed but will accept that. He will then start a long journey around the Shinobi World with the challenge of bringing peace the way it was entrusted to him by Nagato and eventually Obito. Of course, Naruto won't be alone because he will have Hinata by his side.

by **JulaShona** Tue Oct 29, 2013 12:32 am

Irielo wrote:
Sasuke did not reach Obito's level of wrong-doings yet imo. Moreover he and Itachi stopped Kabuto and Onoki himself said, if I'm not wrong, that the one(s) who could stop him should be considered as a hero. Thanks to Sasuke, the former Hokage could come back to help as well and Tsunade was able to recover with Orochimaru's help.

I never said that Sasuke did the same horrible things like Obito, but he still did unforgivable things like joining Akatsuki and kipnapping Bee. I don't think that A would just say "Oh, it's okay that you almost lead my Bro. to his death. So you're forgiven." And because of that it might be an obstruction between Konoha and Kumo. But Sasuke could give rats for that, like he does with his friends in chapter 631. He doesn't want acknowledgment from others like Obito and Naruto. Sasuke just wants to change the system and protect the village by becoming Hokage no matter what, since his brother wanted to protect the village. But with this attitude Sasuke won't sucess like that, IMO.
Well, here we see it's a matter of opinions, again.

by **Irielo** Tue Oct 29, 2013 12:44 am

JulaShona wrote:I never said that Sasuke did the same horrible things like Obito, but he still did unforgivable things like joining Akatsuki and kipnapping Bee. I don't think that A would just say "Oh, it's okay that you almost lead my Bro. to his death. So you're forgiven." And because of that it might be a obstruction between Konoha and Kumo. But Sasuke could give rats for that, like he does with his friends in chapter 631. He doesn't want acknowledgment from others like Obito and Naruto. Sasuke just wants to change the system and protect the village by becoming Hokage, but with this attitude Sasuke won't sucess like that, IMO.
Well, here we see it's a matter of opinions, again.

The alliance still does not know who stopped Kabuto and most of them don't know the truth behind the Uchiha's clan destruction. Now, the entire alliance, including A. and Bee are witnessing that Sasuke is fighting to take Obito down. A. was there too when Tsunade was healed by Karin. Suigetsu, Juugo, who joined Sasuke and Akatsuki were there too. Orochimaru who messed up some things in the Cloud village was there as well but all of them helped. Somehow they paid or are paying back their debts.

On the other hand, if people like A. decided not to forgive Sasuke, that could lead to future disagreements and eventually conflicts. Sasuke might has his own ways but he is fighting on their side and the most important thing for the alliance remains the victory at the end of the day.

by **JulaShona** Tue Oct 29, 2013 12:48 am

Irielo wrote:The alliance still does not know who stopped Kabuto and most of them don't know the truth behind the Uchiha's clan destruction. Now, the entire alliance, including A. and Bee are witnessing that Sasuke is fighting to take Obito down. A. was there too when Tsunade was healed by Karin. Suigetsu, Juugo, who joined Sasuke and Akatsuki were there too. Orochimaru who messed up some things in the Cloud village was there as well but all of them helped. Somehow they paid or are paying back their debts.

On the other hand, if people like A. decided not to forgive Sasuke, that could lead to future disagreements and eventually conflicts. Sasuke might has his own ways but he is fighting on their side and the most important thing for the alliance remains the victory at the end of the day.

What would you then say if Obito turns to the good side and stops the moon eye's plan and Madara together with Naruto and Sasuke? Then Obito would have fixed his mistake and could easy be forgiven, too, like Sasuke "eliminated" the evil Kabuto with his brother Itachi and would be forgiven when everyone learns about it.

by **Irielo** Tue Oct 29, 2013 12:53 am

JulaShona wrote:What would you then say if Obito turns to the good side and stops the moon eye's plan and Madara together with Naruto and Sasuke? Then Obito would have fixed his mistake and could easy be forgiven, too, like Sasuke "eleminated" the evil Kabuto woth his brother Itachi.

That could happen this way too but that would be at the cost of Obito's life imo. And btw, Obito's mistake is bigger than Sasuke's one. Obito's wrong-doings have started already 17 years ago.

by **JulaShona** Tue Oct 29, 2013 1:11 am

Irielo wrote:
That could happen this way too but that would be at the cost of Obito's life imo. And btw, Obito's mistake is bigger than Sasuke's one. Obito's wrong-doings have started already 17 years ago.

It's never too late to be good and I believe that Obito was brain washed by Madara. But Obito had no one to open his eyes, like Naruto just did.(thank god) IMO, it's not Obito's fault for being told that a complete dream is the best way to get a better world for everyone, where his beloved Rin was back to life, too. Of course he would want that. Obito is now confirmed to be an orphan and he just lost his only love who treated him so gentle and promised to be by his side. Who wouldn't want that person to be back?
I don't believe the people there to be that trustful with people who were criminal and did bad things. I don't know what the people would think when they learned about that Sasuke actually wanted to destroy the village. Sasuke might has defeated Kabuto and brought the Kage back but if they learn that he actually wanted to destroy the whole village and it just depended only on an answer, whether it stands or not, they maybe would be more suspicious. Who knows if he would want that again when something traumatizing happens to him again? What is if he gets brain washed again?

by **Nineslashmonk** Tue Oct 29, 2013 1:21 am

Anyone getting the willies like I am? There is no doubt we will be getting another Naruhina moment soon + with something to help cannonize it further. Back to the topic at hand though, the reason why I have the willies right now is that I got a feeling Madara is going interupt right before Obito makes his redemption known. If you like, refer back to my little theory during the last chapter discussion...because I have a feeling we might see part of it happening.

by **Irielo** Tue Oct 29, 2013 1:24 am

JulaShona wrote:
Irielo wrote:
That could happen this way too but that would be at the cost of Obito's life imo. And btw, Obito's mistake is bigger than Sasuke's one. Obito's wrong-doings have started already 17 years ago.
It's never too late to be good and I believe that Obito was brain washed by Madara. But Obito had no one to open his eyes, like Naruto just did.(thank god) IMO, it's not Obito's fault for being told that a complete dream is the best way to get a better world for everyone, where his beloved Rin was back to life, too. Of course he would want that. Obito is now confirmed to be an orphan and he just lost his only love who treated him so gentle and promised to be by his side. Who wouldn't want that person to be back?
I don't believe the people there to be that trustful with people who were criminal and did bad things. I don't know what the people would think when they learned about that Sasuke actually wanted to destroy the village. Sasuke might has defeated Kabuto and brought the Kage back but if they learn that he actually wanted to destroy the whole village and it just depended only on an answer, whether it stands or not, they maybe would be more suspicious. Who knows if he would want that again when something traumatizing happens to him again? What is if he gets brain washed again?

I'll have to repeat myself but only a few people knows what lies behind the Uchiha clan destruction. I don't want to talk again about Obito's wrong-doings because I had enough discussions about it (you can ask GreatKungLao) but manipulated or not, Obito made his choice to go back to Madara when he had the opportunity to go back to Konoha. Sasuke might have intended to destroy the Leaf but that did not happen, whereas Obito did try to destroy it and that caused pain in the lives of several people, Naruto, Iruka, even Hiruzen Sarutobi (Obito killed Biwako Sarutobi his wife) to name a few of them.

In this chapter, Naruto showed clearly that Obito behaved like a selfish person but because he can identify himself to the latter, he still believes that he can be redeemed.

@Ninelashmonk Who is going to interrupt Obito? Madara or Sasuke? Place your bet!

by **JulaShona** Tue Oct 29, 2013 1:38 am

Irielo wrote:I'll have to repeat myself but only a few people knows what lies behind the Uchiha clan destruction. I don't want to talk again about Obito's wrong-doings because I had enough discussions about it (you can ask GreatKungLao) but manipulated or not, Obito made his choice to go back to Madara when he had the opportunity to go back to Konoha. Sasuke might have intended to destroy the Leaf but that did not happen, whereas Obito did try to destroy it and that caused pain in the lives of several people, Naruto, Iruka, even Hiruzen Sarutobi (Obito killed Biwako Sarutobi his wife) to name a few of them.

In this chapter, Naruto showed clearly that Obito behaved like a selfish person but because he can identify himself to the latter, he still believes that he can be redeemed.

@Ninelashmonk Who is going to interrupt Obito? Madara or Sasuke? Place your bet!

Okay, I get it. But I still can't agree with all of it. However, I have a feeling that Obito might would be killed by Madara which would be a little tragedy for me, if Obito really turned to the good side after the talk with Naruto. Madara almost did nothing in this war except defeating the Kage what we all kind of expected. Killing Obito, who just turned to the good side, and continuing the plan, would be pretty cool, IMO. chapter 653 discussion and 654 predictions 3495430729

chapter 653 discussion and 654 predictions 3495430729

If Sasuke kills him I would feel like he is still an evil bastard. I don't know, but it's just a feeling I have. Something like the moment, when he said: "Burn it down" in chapter 634. I didn't like that at all and I think Sakura didn't like it, too.

by **Nineslashmonk** Tue Oct 29, 2013 1:45 am

Irielo wrote:
JulaShona wrote:
Irielo wrote:
That could happen this way too but that would be at the cost of Obito's life imo. And btw, Obito's mistake is bigger than Sasuke's one. Obito's wrong-doings have started already 17 years ago.
It's never too late to be good and I believe that Obito was brain washed by Madara. But Obito had no one to open his eyes, like Naruto just did.(thank god) IMO, it's not Obito's fault for being told that a complete dream is the best way to get a better world for everyone, where his beloved Rin was back to life, too. Of course he would want that. Obito is now confirmed to be an orphan and he just lost his only love who treated him so gentle and promised to be by his side. Who wouldn't want that person to be back?
I don't believe the people there to be that trustful with people who were criminal and did bad things. I don't know what the people would think when they learned about that Sasuke actually wanted to destroy the village. Sasuke might has defeated Kabuto and brought the Kage back but if they learn that he actually wanted to destroy the whole village and it just depended only on an answer, whether it stands or not, they maybe would be more suspicious. Who knows if he would want that again when something traumatizing happens to him again? What is if he gets brain washed again?
I'll have to repeat myself but only a few people knows what lies behind the Uchiha clan destruction. I don't want to talk again about Obito's wrong-doings because I had enough discussions about it (you can ask GreatKungLao) but manipulated or not, Obito made his choice to go back to Madara when he had the opportunity to go back to Konoha. Sasuke might have intended to destroy the Leaf but that did not happen, whereas Obito did try to destroy it and that caused pain in the lives of several people, Naruto, Iruka, even Hiruzen Sarutobi (Obito killed Biwako Sarutobi his wife) to name a few of them.

In this chapter, Naruto showed clearly that Obito behaved like a selfish person but because he can identify himself to the latter, he still believes that he can be redeemed.

@Ninelashmonk Who is going to interrupt Obito? Madara or Sasuke? Place your bet!

Well, I'm betting its going to be Madara. He is going to use a method thats either going to allow himself to be revived or control the ten tail beast chakra that is out temporary which kills Obito in the process. Now, like I said in last chapter discussion, I've always had this feeling that since Kakashi is still in the kumai eye dimension, he might end up being the one stopping the plan and freeing everyone....which either brings him close to death or kills him. NOTE....I COULD BE VERY WRONG ABOUT THIS AND I DON"T HAVE ANYTHING AGAINST KAKASHI! Its this feeling that I've had ever since Obito got revealed.

by **Irielo** Tue Oct 29, 2013 1:57 am

JulaShona wrote:If Sasuke kills him I would feel like he is still an evil bastard. I don't know, but it's just a feeling I have. Something like the moment, when he said: "Burn it down" in chapter 634. I didn't like that at all and I think Sakura didn't like it, too.

Like you wrote before, it's still a matter of opinions. Sasuke is not one of my favorite character but if he killed Obito, I would see him as someone who brings JUSTICE. Sorry but I won't let myself blind by the ObiRin touching interactions. Obito deserves a painful end imo even though he could become good again.

@Ninelashmonk Don't worry my friend. I like these predictions. I tried to make some too although they are often not happening... lol. Btw, just to spice the thing, I bet on Sasuke.

by **Dianahinkle** Tue Oct 29, 2013 4:17 am

So alot of posts on tumblr are making Rin/Hinata parallels and I was wondering if you guys see them too. Personally I don't want Hinata to be compared to Rin I see more Sakura in her than I see Hinata. (Although Rin seems nicer than Sakura.)

Obito had Rin but she loved Kakashi.
Naruto had Sakura but she loves Sasuke.
Hinata is (one of) the catalysts in Naruto's life that lead him down the path of light. Just my opinion.

by **Strawberry** Tue Oct 29, 2013 8:55 am

*yawn* I feel like a lot of what we saw this chapter could've been done better. It was kind of repetitive repeating the same things over and over while we get flashbacks that aren't really THAT informative. Their conversation could've been done in 3 pages! Eh, but that's how Talk No Jutsu goes, I guess. No helping it. At least the art-work was good, in my opinion.

If ~~when~~ Obito accepts Naruto's hand, I'm pretty sure Madara will step in, and that is something I am looking forward to. I honestly don't know what Obito's fate will be, though.

by **Batokusanagi** Wed Oct 30, 2013 2:56 pm

It kinda bothered about this chapter that argument moved from achieving peace (supposedly Obito's goal) to becoming hokage (Naruto's goal). I mean Obito talks about finding a shortcut to peace and Naruto replies that there are no shortcuts to becoming hokage. That's irrelevant to the way of achieving lasting peace. For example, Jiraiya wanted to find an answer to peace, but he didn't want to become hokage. The answer may lie in a completely different system than the current one (maybe Sasuke's right, though he also confuses becoming hokage with being able to change the system), who knows, so Naruto could be wrong in wanting to become hokage.

Maybe he forgets that the Daimios are the actual rulers of the villages and the hokage are just in charge of providing military force, and there's also the advisors... so ultimately, the hokage doesn't really have that much power, much less enough to completely overhaul the system. Hashirama did it just because he was the first and he was the one who came up with the ninja system.

Another thing is that even granting that Naruto could succeed in achieving peace in his lifetime, what Obito wants (or what he wanted initally) is eternal peace. He wants to completely eradicate any possibility of war or suffering from happening. I think what Naruto should actually be discussing with Obito is how to make Infinite tsukuyomi work for everyone. I mean if the issue is that Naruto is against a world of infinite resources were all the world's problems are solved and you don't need to bother walking "the steep road" to become hokage (because the ninja system is unnecessary and kids can live normal lives instead of having to become killing machines), there's something wrong with him.

Those were my complaints about the chapter, hopefully the chat goes back on topic and doesn't last much. I did like the reference to 615 (again chapter 653 discussion and 654 predictions 3495430729

) and as usual I'm hoping for some NH next chapter. I predict that, when Obito finally fall to the tnj and is about to go the good side, Madara will step in with his trump card and say something like "I always knew this would happen, I have no more use for you".

by **Fallere825** Wed Oct 30, 2013 4:02 pm

Batokusanagi wrote:

Another thing is that even granting that Naruto could succeed in achieving peace in his lifetime, what Obito wants (or what he wanted initally) is eternal peace. He wants to completely eradicate any possibility of war or suffering from happening. I think what Naruto should actually be discussing with Obito is how to make Infinite tsukuyomi work for everyone. I mean if the issue is that Naruto is against a world of infinite resources were all the world's problems are solved and you don't need to bother walking "the steep road" to become hokage (because the ninja system is unnecessary and kids can live normal lives instead of having to become killing machines), there's something wrong with him.

I hear what you're saying but I'll have to disagree with this bit here ^
(now forgetting that realistically because of how humans are designed, true eternal peace is near impossible. I don't even believe it can happen in Naruto, but it is a work of fiction so anything goes.)

While it is true that Obito may want "eternal peace" no matter how you twist and turn it, infinite tsukuyomi is just his will forced upon everyone else. It is not peace, it is control. Sure there may be no fighting/killing/wars but there will also be no free thought, heck no thought at all, everything is controlled. So imo there is no way they can make the infinite tsukuyomi work for everyone, Naruto knows this and as he rightfully said: there is no shortcut to it (he was talking about being hokage but on bigger scale the same can be said about the peace they seek) For true peace you can't make it happen, it has to be a conscience effort on everyone's part. It calls for understanding, selflessness and respect which are things that can only be taught. Which is why i think Naruto is aiming at being the hokage. The position of hokage gives him the power to lead by example,he can't force these ideas into the heads of the shinobi world, but he can show them that peace is possible and work from there.
This shinobi alliance has been a great eye opener to all villages because by no longer being separated they have come to respect, understand and selflessly care for each other and it's because of all of this i believe there will be peace after the war is over.

by **Batokusanagi** Wed Oct 30, 2013 6:14 pm

Lickstermik wrote:
I hear what you're saying but I'll have to disagree with this bit here ^
(now forgetting that realistically because of how humans are designed, true eternal peace is near impossible. I don't even believe it can happen in Naruto, but it is a work of fiction so anything goes.)

While it is true that Obito may want "eternal peace" no matter how you twist and turn it, infinite tsukuyomi is just his will forced upon everyone else. It is not peace, it is control. Sure there may be no fighting/killing/wars but there will also be no free thought, heck no thought at all, everything is controlled. So imo there is no way they can make the infinite tsukuyomi work for everyone, Naruto knows this and as he rightfully said: there is no shortcut to it (he was talking about being hokage but on bigger scale the same can be said about the peace they seek) For true peace you can't make it happen, it has to be a conscience effort on everyone's part. It calls for understanding, selflessness and respect which are things that can only be taught. Which is why i think Naruto is aiming at being the hokage. The position of hokage gives him the power to lead by example,he can't force these ideas into the heads of the shinobi world, but he can show them that peace is possible and work from there.
This shinobi alliance has been a great eye opener to all villages because by no longer being separated they have come to respect, understand and selflessly care for each other and it's because of all of this i believe there will be peace after the war is over.

I said:

I wrote: I think what Naruto should actually be discussing with Obito is how to make Infinite tsukuyomi work for everyone.

There's no reason Infinite tsukuyomi has to be "forced" (wouldn't people prefer a better world?) and remove people's freewill (Madara already took Obito to a very reduced version of infinite tsukuyomi and Obito didn't lose his frewill or anything of the sort), aside from Obito being evil, of course. But that's what the tnj is for. Infinite Tsukuyomi can have anything you could possibly imagine with no downsides, so all your contentions against fall on their faces.

Even if Naruto becomes the best hokage ever ("leading by example" or whatever), there's no chance he could achieve even 1/10000000... of what could be possible in a well-thought out infinite tsukuyomi.
The ninja alliance is certainly a step in the right direction to achieving a better world, but unless Kishi decides to finish the manga with the classic phrase "and everyone lived happily ever after" (would be kinda cheap, though), the peace Naruto could achieve will only last as long as he (and his generation, maybe) lives, perhaps some generations after, and then everything will go back to how it used to be and there'll be war again as the alliance's bond weakens.

by **GreatKungLao** Wed Oct 30, 2013 6:29 pm

Batokusanagi wrote:
Lickstermik wrote:
I hear what you're saying but I'll have to disagree with this bit here ^
(now forgetting that realistically because of how humans are designed, true eternal peace is near impossible. I don't even believe it can happen in Naruto, but it is a work of fiction so anything goes.)

While it is true that Obito may want "eternal peace" no matter how you twist and turn it, infinite tsukuyomi is just his will forced upon everyone else. It is not peace, it is control. Sure there may be no fighting/killing/wars but there will also be no free thought, heck no thought at all, everything is controlled. So imo there is no way they can make the infinite tsukuyomi work for everyone, Naruto knows this and as he rightfully said: there is no shortcut to it (he was talking about being hokage but on bigger scale the same can be said about the peace they seek) For true peace you can't make it happen, it has to be a conscience effort on everyone's part. It calls for understanding, selflessness and respect which are things that can only be taught. Which is why i think Naruto is aiming at being the hokage. The position of hokage gives him the power to lead by example,he can't force these ideas into the heads of the shinobi world, but he can show them that peace is possible and work from there.
This shinobi alliance has been a great eye opener to all villages because by no longer being separated they have come to respect, understand and selflessly care for each other and it's because of all of this i believe there will be peace after the war is over.
I said:
I wrote: I think what Naruto should actually be discussing with Obito is how to make Infinite tsukuyomi work for everyone.
There's no reason Infinite tsukuyomi has to be "forced" (wouldn't people prefer a better world?) and remove people's freewill (Madara already took Obito to a very reduced version of infinite tsukuyomi and Obito didn't lose his frewill or anything of the sort), aside from Obito being evil, of course. But that's what the tnj is for. Infinite Tsukuyomi can have anything you could possibly imagine with no downsides, so all your contentions against fall on their faces.

Even if Naruto becomes the best hokage ever ("leading by example" or whatever), there's no chance he could achieve even 1/10000000... of what could be possible in a well-thought out infinite tsukuyomi.
The ninja alliance is certainly a step in the right direction to achieving a better world, but unless Kishi decides to finish the manga with the classic phrase "and everyone lived happily ever after" (would be kinda cheap, though), the peace Naruto could achieve will only last as long as he (and his generation, maybe) lives, perhaps some generations after, and then everything will go back to how it used to be and there'll be war again as the alliance's bond weakens.

If I recall correctly, The Matrix is one of the Kishimoto's favorite movies. In The Matrix there is the same thing, but people are already living in "Infinite Tsukuyomi" which is Matrix itself and everything they are in reality is batteries for machines. This world of illusion was twisted and controlled, so that people even started been able to escape from Matrix and join others in reality underground, planning to take reality from machines control. In the end humans in reality have won and control was broken, machines and humans started live in peace, because there was the chosen one - Neo, who lead as an example both for humans and machines, that war between them is pointless and should be stoped, in the end Neo was fighting with the enemy, which was enemy of humans and machines at the same time. Neo have won and machines were influenced by his actions, which made them stop killing people underground (there was war started as well, while Neo was trying to stop all this).

Besides, even if everyone was living in Infinite Tsukuyomi, their bodies in reality would getting old or would be needed to eat and drink, so eventually they would die and this illusion would end in an instance. And while everyone would be living in Infinite Tsukuyomi, that means that people wouldn't make any kids in reality, which means no new generations, which means that when their bodies would die in reality (all of them), there will be no one left to control with Infinite Tsukuyomi. In fact, IT can become a genocide.

by **Irielo** Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:04 pm

Batokusanagi wrote:Even if Naruto becomes the best hokage ever ("leading by example" or whatever), there's no chance he could achieve even 1/10000000... of what could be possible in a well-thought out infinite tsukuyomi.
The ninja alliance is certainly a step in the right direction to achieving a better world, but unless Kishi decides to finish the manga with the classic phrase "and everyone lived happily ever after" (would be kinda cheap, though), the peace Naruto could achieve will only last as long as he (and his generation, maybe) lives, perhaps some generations after, and then everything will go back to how it used to be and there'll be war again as the alliance's bond weakens.

To bring peace in the Shinobi World will be indeed a big challenge for Naruto. It might take him a whole lifetime and like you wrote, conflicts might arise again after some generations. It's in fact a cycle with periods of peace and period of wars. That's why, to me, Naruto is the one who has the mission to bring peace in this era. Even though this peace might not last forever, he will be seen as a role model by the next generations. He will probably have the same status like the So6P and his principles of life, his Nindo, is something he will entrust to the next generations in the whole Shinobi World, so on an international level in the same way the Will of Fire was entrusted from a generation to another but on a local basis in this case: Konoha. Naruto might thus become a legend himself...

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