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Naruto chapter 687 discussion and 688 predictions

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Post by Irielo on Tue Jul 29, 2014 7:11 pm

NARUTO CHAPTER 687 DISCUSSION AND 688 PREDICTIONS

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It's out!
Date: 30/07
Title: You will


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Post by Bubbles on Tue Jul 29, 2014 7:31 pm

Chapter wasn't all that interesting to me. Only good thing that happened imo was Obito is gone. Ding dong betch.  Naruto chapter 687 discussion and 688  predictions 457011728 

Spoiler:
but I admit, his death scene was a little sad...just a little.

Anywhoooo, yeah so I'm hoping Kaguya-hime gets more of a personality, I would love to see more of her and her backstory. I'm also interested in that castle...

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Post by bricksquad88 on Tue Jul 29, 2014 7:43 pm

Obito kicked the bucket! Bout time. But it was a good chapter. Nothing too crazy happened. I'm hoping that next chapter we actually get some progression
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Post by ThisIsMyNinjaWay on Tue Jul 29, 2014 7:44 pm

Yeah.. I too knew the chapter was going to not be so good. I knew Obito would have flashbacks out the a$$. But it was sad that he died, though it had to finally happen. Hopefully this will open up new pages and story now that hes gone. So it seems that Sakura will find out about the massacre in a climax moment I believe. I feel the purpose of it would be to reconfirm to Sakura that theres stuff she never knew about regarding Sasuke and why he did the things he did.
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Post by Irielo on Tue Jul 29, 2014 7:50 pm

I can understand Naruto empathizing with Obito and even being thankful to him. What I don't understand: "To me, Obito was the coolest guy"... Oh yes Naruto, I think you lack some objectivity there my friend. The guy is the cause of your parents death + the reason of why you had to suffer before + the one who manipulated your best friend Sasuke, leading him on the path of hatred...

Well, I guess that you find him cool because somehow, thanks to him, you've also become what you are now...

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Post by Bubbles on Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:00 pm

Right? The coolest guy my butt. He killed your parents, helped slaughter his own clan, said eff his friends at home and teacher, lets destroy the world, strapped a bomb on him when he was a baby, manipulated Sasuke into destroying Konoha, mocked his dad, mocked his goals, killed his friend Neji, helped make Akatsuki what it was and killed numerous others, then killed Konan when she tried to stop him from getting Nagato's eyes, helped kill over 40,000 people in the first day of the war arc alone...oh and not to mention, helped enslave an entire planet, and now they are slowly turning into mindless zetsu. But because he wants to be Hokage, he's "the coolest?" Give me a break. Ding dong, the witch is dead I say.
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Post by Yamasaki Akaiko on Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:21 pm

Eh, that's not why Naruto said that. Naruto is someone who has placed Sasuke above pretty much all things and felt justified in doing so once he understood Sasuke's position (an understanding that Sakura lacks)--even when Sasuke was threatening to kill everyone Naruto cares about in Konoha.

Obito just saved his life, saved Kakashi's life, just thanked him, and acknowledged his ultimate dream. After all of that, Zetsu is insulting Obito for being stupid enough to be manipulated for years when Obito just saved Naruto & Kakashi's lives less than 30 seconds ago.

If Naruto didn't say something similar to what he did, I would've been surprised. Naruto does not focus on "bad things" people have done, especially if he can understand "why." Naruto understands the "why" for Obito and Obito had done more than enough to redeem himself based on the way Naruto accepts people very easily.

Also, just because Naruto claimed at this very instance while he's clearly angry at Zetsu (moreso than Kaguya; she lost the arm containing Zetsu) that Obito is the coolest (or whatever), it does not mean that he thinks Obito is greater than certain other people in his life (or wanted to be in his life). However, there is no way that Naruto wasn't going to defend Obito at this present moment.
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Post by Bubbles on Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:50 pm

Yamasaki Akaiko wrote:Eh, that's not why Naruto said that. Naruto is someone who has placed Sasuke above pretty much all things and felt justified in doing so once he understood Sasuke's position (an understanding that Sakura lacks)--even when Sasuke was threatening to kill everyone Naruto cares about in Konoha.
Obito just saved his life, saved Kakashi's life, just thanked him, and acknowledged his ultimate dream.
Obito is the reason they had their lives in danger to begin with so really, it's like saving the life of someone falling off a bridge...after you yourself pushed them. If he hadn't done all this, their lives wouldn't have been in jeopardy for him to save because Madara wouldn't have ever returned. Great, he thanked him. He should seeing as Naruto didn't rip him apart after everything he's done and instead sympathized with him, as Naruto would do being who he is. Okay, he acknowledged his ultimate dream. Still don't see how that makes him "the coolest?"

Sorry, but that just made me laugh, it was just a bad phrase to me. I know Naruto doesn't hold grudges or anything and I never expected him to...but the coolest guy was out of place for me. He couldn't have said anything else to defend him? I just facepalmed on that one.
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Post by Sacred Fire on Tue Jul 29, 2014 10:42 pm

On manga stream Naruto said he can't see Obito as anything else but awesome! Its that translation error.
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Post by Azuula on Tue Jul 29, 2014 11:44 pm

Irielo wrote:I can understand Naruto empathizing with Obito and even being thankful to him. What I don't understand: "To me, Obito was the coolest guy"... Oh yes Naruto, I think you lack some objectivity there my friend. The guy is the cause of your parents death + the reason of why you had to suffer before + the one who manipulated your best friend Sasuke, leading him on the path of hatred...

Well, I guess that you find him cool because somehow, thanks to him, you've also become what you are now...

But remember, it wasn't entirely him, he was used like a puppet attached on strings to do all the dirty work, leading to all this crap. Black zetsu was behind it all (right?). I think Naruto forgave him because he could see behind the scenes and understand that black zetsu was the one who not only controlled Obito, but used Madara as a brainwashing machine as-well.
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Post by Irielo on Wed Jul 30, 2014 2:47 am

Yamasaki Akaiko wrote:Naruto understands the "why" for Obito and Obito had done more than enough to redeem himself based on the way Naruto accepts people very easily.

That's why Naruto lacked of objectivity actually. Obito tried to redeem himself in a war he started. So saving Team 7 (the probable War heroes) should give Obito the quality of someone who has done "more than enough to redeem himself"? Sorry, but that's too much... "The coolest" or "awesome" might be the way Naruto expresses himself but I really think Naruto could have used other words to express the fact that he actually admired the way Obito decided to turn "good" again without exaggerating.

Bubbles wrote:Obito is the reason they had their lives in danger to begin with so really, it's like saving the life of someone falling off a bridge...after you yourself pushed them. If he hadn't done all this, their lives wouldn't have been in jeopardy for him to save because Madara wouldn't have ever returned. Great, he thanked him. He should seeing as Naruto didn't rip him apart after everything he's done and instead sympathized with him, as Naruto would do being who he is. Okay, he acknowledged his ultimate dream. Still don't see how that makes him "the coolest?"

Sorry, but that just made me laugh, it was just a bad phrase to me. I know Naruto doesn't hold grudges or anything and I never expected him to...but the coolest guy was out of place for me. He couldn't have said anything else to defend him? I just facepalmed on that one.  

^This!

Azuula wrote:But remember, it wasn't entirely him, he was used like a puppet attached on strings to do all the dirty work, leading to all this crap. Black zetsu was behind it all (right?). I think Naruto forgave him because he could see behind the scenes and understand that black zetsu was the one who not only controlled Obito, but used Madara as a brainwashing machine as-well.

Oh! I can remember very well which role BZ played in the whole mess but it's so easy to put all the guilt on one neutral and maybe unredeemable being (which is BZ) solely. That's very convenient and also enables others to get out with clean hands if you get what I mean...
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Post by Yamasaki Akaiko on Wed Jul 30, 2014 3:19 am

Bubbles wrote:Obito is the reason they had their lives in danger to begin with so really, it's like saving the life of someone falling off a bridge...after you yourself pushed them. If he hadn't done all this, their lives wouldn't have been in jeopardy for him to save because Madara wouldn't have ever returned. Great, he thanked him. He should seeing as Naruto didn't rip him apart after everything he's done and instead sympathized with him, as Naruto would do being who he is. Okay, he acknowledged his ultimate dream. Still don't see how that makes him "the coolest?"

That's because you're thinking as "yourself" and not thinking like Naruto--who would focus more on someone choosing to save his life instead of the push (using your example) as long as the life saving came last. Naruto doesn't care about the past if you "change." If he did, then he wouldn't want to become Hokage due to the villagers now that he understands the position more. If Naruto did, then he wouldn't have put Sasuke over his own personal dreams even knowing what Sasuke wanted to do when Sasuke was lashing out at the world (well, mainly Konoha, but Sasuke didn't care about anyone else as long as Konoha went down). If Naruto focused on what people did to start instead what they did at the end, he wouldn't have good feelings for both Nagato and Itachi either. There are so many examples in this series of Naruto choosing to like/appreciate those who have done wrong to him in the past that it's completely ignoring his character to complain about it unless you just say that you dislike Naruto being himself when it comes to his let bygones be bygones attitude.

The line made perfect sense coming from Naruto (who defends pretty much anyone, especially those who save his life so spectacularly) considering who he happens to be. If you don't like that aspect of Naruto, that's fine. It's similar to the fact that some people can't stand aspects from many characters that I see no point in complaining about as long as it's accurate to their personality.

Sacred Fire wrote:On manga stream Naruto said he can't see Obito as anything else but awesome! Its that translation error.

That's not really a translation error. It has the exact same meaning. Naruto was praising Obito for being cool/awesome. Viz will also probably have a slightly different translation. If you're picky about exact phrasing (which can't always be done when translating from Japanese which is why there were so many different translations of Sasuke's "thanks" in chapter 685 once the raw came out--all of the translations were accurate too), you're missing the point.

Irielo wrote:
Yamasaki Akaiko wrote:Naruto understands the "why" for Obito and Obito had done more than enough to redeem himself based on the way Naruto accepts people very easily.

That's why Naruto lacked of objectivity actually. Obito tried to redeem himself in a war he started. So saving Team 7 (the probable War heroes) should give Obito the quality of someone who has done "more than enough to redeem himself"? Sorry, but that's too much... "The coolest" or "awesome" might be the way Naruto expresses himself but I really think Naruto could have used other words to express the fact that he actually admired the way Obito decided to turn "good" again without exaggerating.

Naruto is not objective. That's never been Naruto's style and it's not going to be his style now (why do you think Shikamaru is so adamant about living to be Naruto's advisor?). Additionally, Naruto is angry and as far as he's concerned the "now" trumps the "past." He's defending someone he respects (especially since while it wasn't done as explicitly as with Gaara, or Sasuke, he knows that he could've been what Obito became if his own life went just a little differently) while angry so yes he'll "exaggerate" because that's who he is.

I find this chapter funny in the sense that usually Sasuke is one being complained about (for not being Naruto-like) and in this chapter it's the reverse. :D
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Post by Bubbles on Wed Jul 30, 2014 7:00 am

I'm not even complaining about Naruto's character. It's in Naruto's character to not think on the past, what does that have to do with calling him "the coolest?" He never forgave Nagato, but still thinks of him in his mind as those who sacrificed. Naruto doesn't have to hold a grudge, but that doesn't mean calling him the coolest is still in place given what he's done. If Obito is coolest for wanting to be Hokage despite the shit he pulled, so is Danzo I guess . It's just Kishi making Naruto relate to people again. He could have said him wanting to strive to be Hokage was cool, not Obito himself. That would be less terrible and more general, but still talking about Obito's past dreams in a sense.
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Post by Yamasaki Akaiko on Wed Jul 30, 2014 7:23 am

Because the context of the situation is being ignored. When Naruto said that he didn't forgive Nagato, Nagato hadn't yet revived the killed people of Konoha. When Naruto said that he didn't forgive Nagato, no one was there trying to insult Nagato after he'd given his life to save the lives of people of Konoha. Naruto was much nicer to Edo Nagato than the alive Nagato because of what Nagato had done at the end. If someone had been insulting Nagato, Naruto would've talked about how cool/awesome/great Nagato was despite everything he'd done (including saying that he'd never forgive him).

This isn't a situation about relating to anyone (though that does help). This is about the fact that Zetsu was just insulting the person who had just saved Naruto's life as well as Kakashi. It helps that Obito regrets things and was trying to make things better. Naruto will never stand for someone insulting someone who is doing their best to make things better, especially if that same person had just saved his life less than 30 seconds ago. Naruto was angry and expecting anything other than something very flattering out of his mouth doesn't make sense in this context. Complaining that Naruto is praising someone who just saved his life if you accept that Naruto is emotional about things all the time, doesn't make sense. Complain that Naruto is ruled by his emotions as that's very true.
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Post by Irielo on Wed Jul 30, 2014 8:22 am

Yamasaki Akaiko wrote:I find this chapter funny in the sense that usually Sasuke is one being complained about (for not being Naruto-like) and in this chapter it's the reverse. :D

Sasuke is a very interesting character to think about. His backstory and the ambiguity surrounding his personality are aspects which give some depth to this character. As for me, there are some questions about him which need some answers but these questions are no complaints. What was disturbing with Naruto in this chapter, is that he showed his fanboy traits about someone who was just trying to correct the bad he has done.

Yes, Obito saved him and Kakashi (as well as Team 7) and that was the least he could do. But BZ insulting Obito in an arrogant way conveniently created the opportunity for some Obito praising by Naruto who was definitely touched by Obito's parallel to himself about becoming Hokage and his last words which sounded like a blessing from him to Naruto.

Anyway, both, Naruto and Sasuke, are sometimes kind of extreme in their way of reacting. One can react like an immature fanboy and the other one like a cold calculating person.

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Post by Bubbles on Wed Jul 30, 2014 4:29 pm

Irielo wrote:Yes, Obito saved him and Kakashi (as well as Team 7) and that was the least he could do. But BZ insulting Obito in an arrogant way conveniently created the opportunity for some Obito praising by Naruto who was definitely touched by Obito's parallel to himself about becoming Hokage and his last words which sounded like a blessing from him to Naruto.

Anyway, both, Naruto and Sasuke, are sometimes kind of extreme in their way of reacting. One can react like an immature fanboy and the other one like a cold calculating person.
It was very convenient. And anyway, Naruto sounded like he was whitewashing Obito right there, despite the many years and lives he ruined, including his own and I don't like that. He should be shown acknowledging what Obito did, instead he just got angry and called him the coolest instead of saying something like "I won't stand for you bashing on someone who tried his hardest to do the right thing!" Or something like that. That is still acknowledging indirectly that he has done wrong as BZ stated, but still also defending Obito of the now and acknowledging him trying to do right by them in the end. Calling him "the coolest"  cause Hokage dream is the thing that is out of place here, not Naruto being forgiving of what he's done or even defending him.
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Post by Irielo on Wed Jul 30, 2014 6:50 pm

Bubbles wrote:And anyway, Naruto sounded like he was whitewashing Obito right there, despite the many years and lives he ruined, including his own and I don't like that. He should be shown acknowledging what Obito did, instead he just got angry and called him the coolest instead of saying something like "I won't stand for you bashing on someone who tried his hardest to do the right thing!"

Exactly!

On another note, I am curious to see what will come out from the encounter between the Edo Hokages and Hagoromo. Is he going to tell them something about the tools, how they can be used...? Is he going to reveal some more stuffs about his brother Hamura? These kind of issues would be very interesting to read in the up-coming chapters (if they are planned to be addressed of course).

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Post by Bubbles on Wed Jul 30, 2014 8:02 pm

Irielo wrote:
Bubbles wrote:And anyway, Naruto sounded like he was whitewashing Obito right there, despite the many years and lives he ruined, including his own and I don't like that. He should be shown acknowledging what Obito did, instead he just got angry and called him the coolest instead of saying something like "I won't stand for you bashing on someone who tried his hardest to do the right thing!"

Exactly!

On another note, I am curious to see what will come out from the encounter between the Edo Hokages and Hagoromo. Is he going to tell them something about the tools, how they can be used...? Is he going to reveal some more stuffs about his brother Hamura? These kind of issues would be very interesting to read in the up-coming chapters (if they are planned to be addressed of course).
Like, what Sakura did in this page.
Spoiler:
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She acknowledged the bad things Obito had done, but still thanked him for the good he did do, acknowledging his efforts.

I'm curious about that as well. I just hope Kishi does not seal Kaguya-hime quickly, I would be upset he brought her around for no real reason than to make the manga longer. That's how it would look to me at least. I really want Kaguya to shut BZ up too, he's annoying me because he's like her mouthpiece and I want to see how she is without him clinging to her.

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Post by ThisIsMyNinjaWay on Wed Jul 30, 2014 8:42 pm

I did read there were other translations, and they sound alot better then saying "Hes the coolest guy I know" I'm not going to lie either, that made me cringe, cause "the coolest guy you know?" that means you took shits on the others who have helped and ACTUALLY did things in your life. I do accept and respect [respect to an extent] for Naruto to acknowledge and gave Obito a second chance after all and I mean ALL Obito has done till now, its in Naruto's character to forgive and turn people to the good side, I find the other translations much suitable cause MangaPanda just was tooooo OVERLY accepting of a character from Naruto's mouth towards Obito.
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Post by Bubbles on Wed Jul 30, 2014 9:00 pm

ThisIsMyNinjaWay wrote:I did read there were other translations, and they sound alot better then saying "Hes the coolest guy I know" I'm not going to lie either, that made me cringe, cause "the coolest guy you know?" that means you took shits on the others who have helped and ACTUALLY did things in your life. I do accept and respect [respect to an extent] for Naruto to acknowledge and gave Obito a second chance after all and I mean ALL Obito has done till now, its in Naruto's character to forgive and turn people to the good side, I find the other translations much suitable cause MangaPanda just was tooooo OVERLY accepting of a character from Naruto's mouth towards Obito.
The only other translations I heard were;

1. "I can't think of him being anything else than awesome!" --Just as cheesy, whitewashing and horrible.

2. He was referring to previous lil' Obito, the one who wanted to be Hokage, the one before all this. --Eh, maybe it was just written weirdly, since it doesn't seem to be what he was referring to.

I'll wait for VIZ I guess.
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Post by Purkle200 on Thu Jul 31, 2014 12:55 pm

I'm so glad Naruto chopped Black Zetsu off from Kaguya he had no right to say those things to Obito even though they were true. I hope he shuts his trap next chapter no one wants to hear him run his mouth again.


Last edited by Purkle200 on Thu Jul 31, 2014 12:56 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : spelling)
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Post by Irielo on Thu Jul 31, 2014 6:31 pm

Again, I think BZ should get some credits for what he did since Indra's era... Without him, even Kaguya would not have appeared and we would not have got the informations we got about the history of the Shinobi world. Although he can be annoying, BZ can also be a source of informations, regarding Kaguya herself for instance.

However, what I did not appreciate in that chapter is the fact that BZ started to insult Obito arrogantly (which is a trait he did not really have, a villain who talks bad about people to diminish them) just to give the opportunity to Naruto to make Obito look good in his (Naruto) most basic fanboy's traits.

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Post by lily567 on Fri Aug 01, 2014 4:25 am

very ineteresting chapter
i think naruto called him cool was because even tho he made a lot of mistakes in the past , he has been making an effort to help and attone all of them by helping naruto. and obito finally understood what kakshi told him

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Post by racefan1992 on Fri Aug 01, 2014 6:11 am

ThisIsMyNinjaWay wrote:I did read there were other translations, and they sound alot better then saying "Hes the coolest guy I know" I'm not going to lie either, that made me cringe, cause "the coolest guy you know?" that means you took shits on the others who have helped and ACTUALLY did things in your life. I do accept and respect [respect to an extent] for Naruto to acknowledge and gave Obito a second chance after all and I mean ALL Obito has done till now, its in Naruto's character to forgive and turn people to the good side, I find the other translations much suitable cause MangaPanda just was tooooo OVERLY accepting of a character from Naruto's mouth towards Obito.

In bold i really wouldn't go that far. Kishi at times can make Naruto words "gossipal-like." Naruto has fanboyed for other people (Hinata for example?), so this is nothing new. But i really do not think Naruto toke a dump on everyone who has helped him in his live but fanboying is what Naruto does at time.

If i was writing this, i would have done what Bubbles-chan posted for what Sakura said too Obito. That right there is perfect.
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Post by Yamasaki Akaiko on Fri Aug 01, 2014 10:40 am

Then you would've had Naruto be out of character. Sakura and Naruto do not approach things the same way just because they're both "loud" in some ways (but they channel it very differently). What Sakura did makes sense for her. What Naruto did makes sense for him.
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